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Why I'm So Mad At The Raw Food Movement Today - an interesting article. Thoughts?




    Wow, I really enjoyed reading the article. I do agree that I feel my best when I eat a lot of fruit and vegetables, and little fat. The proof is that I had a lot of nuts tonight with some dry fruit, and OMG boy do I ever feel like crap. I feel heavy, lethargic and bloated. I probably should have read this article before eating!

  • awesome article jakkrabbit. awesome. How old are you? you have an "old soul". :) that is good, lots of wisdom for such a young girl!

  • Thanks for this article! A great reminder for me. I have seen a few videos and articles by Frederic P. and felt them to be clear and ring true for me. Back to the basics: Lot of Fruits

    and Veggies...


    with gratitude. Yum!

  • I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that I had written the article! It's written by Frederic Patenaude


  • hmm, I still have a problem with FAT=BAD. There are so many different kinds of fat's some are bad some good. And of course nobody knows which one is good and which is bad, according to western medicine I should be in the hospital by now because of the amount of saturated fat I eat and people who follow a raw-vegan-diet (with fat) should be very healthy because of the large amount of poly-unsaturated fats but they feel not good on poly-unsaturated fats, I (and some more people with the same strange diet) feel very good on saturated fat.

    I never tried palm fat (saturate fat) maybe it gives completely different results then the un-saturated fats?

    Then of course if you heat fat everything changes.

    Why do normal people like fatty things so much (normal sad food is often yellow)?

    And in some cultures fat is more valuable than anything else?

    A lot of hormones are depended on fat.

    your brain is largely fat.

    You don't get fat of fat.

    So much I don't know.

  • I like Roger Haeske and regularly read his newsletters, and I really like Frederic Patenaude for his wealth of information. I even subscribe to his Raw Food Monthly Mentor Club. I am, however, taking the same stance as RawEverything.

    I totally agree that too much fat is not good for our health even if it's raw, but I'm not convinced yet that everybody does well with only 10% or less fat. Some athletes develop essential fatty acid deficiency when they are on low fat diet for a long time, and some studies have also confirmed that a low fat-high sugar diet causes an increase in fatty acid synthesis and in inpalmitate-rich, linoleate-poor VLDL triacylglycerols.

    As for salt, I believe our body needs 1 - 1.5g sodium per day to function properly. I can't get that much salt by just eating fruits and veggies. Maybe people eating 2000 calories or more can, but I'm very short and my body burns only about 1650 calories in a day, so I don't eat that much. In fact, two highly qualified kinesiologiests tested on me and they both told me I needed to consume more salt.

    As for herbs, I'm totally against taking herbs as supplements, but I don't see that using a little bit of fresh or dried herbs in our food would do serious harm to our body. Chinese people have used herbs for 2000 years after all.

    I'm going to read the 80/10/10 diet book and keep doing more research, but at this time I still believe that there is no one size fit all diet. I think it's good to use the 80/10/10 diet as a base but it should be adjusted to each person's needs.

  • So the low fat raw diet is kind of the 80/10/10?? My big question here is where do I get my b-12 by eating like this, I mean actually without knowing I've been eating like this and yes I do feel good, but I still get worried about not having enough vitamins so I have to take a b-12 supplement because actually I was becoming anemic and I really don't like having supplements. Anyone knows about it??

  • rawpretzela, I think it is definitely a good idea to take a b12 supplement. Even Dr. Graham and Frederic Patenaude recommend the supplementation.

  • RawPretzel,

    If your going to follow a raw vegan diet you really should supplement with B-12. There just isn't B-12 in fruits and veggies. One can get B-12 from soil (not washing your food)- but the amount you would get would be questionable. Fecal contamination can also up the b-12 in food- but this also introduces other problems:-) Safest bet is the supplement.

  • Frederic P. has alot of the typical prejudices of 80/10/10 fanatics--they think that only professional athletes are healthy, and insult people who are not tan or body builders; as apparently no one else is allowed to have a different concept of beauty or health. I agree that low-fat is best, but I really think the dogma in this article is ridiculous, as is the attitude, insulting people who attend potlucks and raw chefs at resturaunts.

  • Well.... firstly.... I find it difficult to read or listen to Frederic P. He seems to me to have a cult-ish / I know what's best for everyone attitude and I cant follow that mentality. To be fair to the guy though... I haven't listened to him speak in YEARS so a lot could have possibly changed. I used to get email sent to me almost daily and his whole agenda seemed to be focused on making money off of people. Sadly though....the other 'gurus' out there are doing the same thing.

    Makes me sad.... I also share a frustration with the Raw foods community. Everyones idea of 'one size fits all' mentality. We talk about being free minded and spiritually advanced...on a mental high....and we close off everyone who doesnt follow our diet to a -T-

    I dont think it is fair to knock raw food authors and restaurant owners for the fact that they make raw gourmet meals. They dont promote eating super high fat diets rather than showing what can be done with raw foods and offering VARIETY!!! They are not saying 'hey... have our alfredo daily, followed by our carrot cake' ...I see mention ALL the time in uncook books the fact that water, fruits and veggies are super important to the diets! It seems these 80/10/10ers or LFRV-ers just shoot down the gourmet movement. Not cool. They are appealing to the masses and just trying to get people to take small steps.

    I am all about finding what works best for my body while keeping education and research at the top of my list. Why? So I can help others that DONT respond how my body does. I want to help people understand they can make changes in SMALL ways that can GREATLY affect their lives. Then..when they see those changes... they can make another small change and another. If that means they make a gourmet dish so they can sit down and feel more apart of their families lives then so be it. Who am I to say what is best for anyone. It seems a lot of people have A LOT of opinions on whats best for everyone. People need to take responsibility for their own actions and their own lives and figure out what works for them....trying hard NOT to fit some coined term!


  • Good thoughts, inspired me to change the title of the post, as you can see. :)

  • I knew you hadn't written it, but you find GREAT tidbits of info online, and pick them well!

  • Thanks for posting this article. I know there's a lot of difference in the types of raw food diets. I love that we can share this information here and openly discuss it like this.

    Now that's what I call being open minded and looking for the right answers. :) And not just a cookie cutter approach either...

  • Wow, that is one interesting website- I found the article about cacao- especially interesting. I was thinking of getting some- I won't now! I'll look for raw carob instead.

  • I'm so glad you posted this. I am very new to this, only 3 weeks, and I feel like I have been over consuming fats. All the cookbooks have high fat recipes though, so I have been thinking that it must be OK. Meanwhile, my digestion has been lousy and I have been feeling run down. I also haven't lost any weight. I am not overweight, but I kind of just got the impression that the extra 15 lbs I've been lugging would fall right off in 2 weeks. I guess I'm a sucker for thinking I could eat 700 calories worth of nuts in a day and lose weight, but this is how many cookbooks make it seem.

    So, what is a good amount of fat to eat?

  • swayzeswayze Raw Newbie

    Casey, I was in the same position as you when I first went raw back in 2007. I tried a still popular un-cook book for a couple weeks, but I always felt hungry, it took forever to make anything, and every dish was brimming with fat. I finally added up the amount of fat I was eating (I followed the meal plan in the book) and it was over 40% of calories from fat each day! I just knew that was crazy and figured the raw food diet was just another fad diet.

    Luckily, I came across a low fat, high fruit raw vegan diet and never looked back. :)

    The recommended amount of fat is no more than 10% of total calories. This is not everyday, but over the course of a month or a year.



  • pls delete. thanks.

  • Gosh that is a lot for toothpaste- I can get organic toothpaste here for

  • There was a guy who lived in my building last year who kept trying to tell me meat, saturated animal fats were good for you and didn't cause cholesterol. He was forever going on that veganism was unhealthy! His cooking stank the house out and when he had a toilet visit you didn't want to be around. :O

    What a fun video! You must have a strong constitution to be in there though- I have read and seen on vidoes that durian fruits smell of old socks, despite them being nutritious.What do they taste like? Some people say they taste of onions some of custard. We don't get them in Britain.

  • K, it sounds good, but after reading all of this guys blog then to get all this guys program it's $143.95 for all the books, some of them ebooks and DVD. It feels like another guru. Any validation out there in goneraw land? excpet to say I spent the whole day ill from a coconut oil/carob "treat" I made myself last night, and knew I had to eat grapefruit to try and combat the fat...so this guy may be onto something. And I have always felt that we should be able to eat fruit, so many frown on it, but in that I have gotten my gut more cleaned out I don't have the candida problem as much anymore, so he is making more sence than many other gurus. ANd yet, my body type accorning to chinese medicine needs more fat, and my skin sometimes splits, assuming I am not getting enough fat....man.


  • swayzeswayze Raw Newbie

    missemy, body type has nothing to do with diet. Have you ever met a horse, elephant, lion, etc. that eats a specific diet different from the rest of its species because of it's blood type/ metabolism rate/etc? It's complete nonsense.

    In regards to Frederic Patenaude (I'm assuming that's who you're referring to...), his stuff is great. His book, The Raw Secrets, got me interested in raw again and the Perfect Health Program really cemented all the info for me. I think PHP is on sale right now, too. :)



  • ambiguousambiguous Raw Newbie

    Regarding different diets for different people (and other animals): A cow in India would naturally eat very differently than a cow in the US, who would eat differently than a cow in southern Africa. Climate is different, food supply is different, and thus general lifestyle is different. Same with people. My ancestors are from eastern Europe, where it was cold for a good part of the year. Only certain kinds of flora and fauna grew there. Their diet was very different from the ancestors of a person whose family is from Costa Rica, with a totally different climate and different flora and fauna. Like it or not, we do have physical differences based on our ancestry. It's foolish to think that these differences don't affect the way our bodies process different foods. And of course, where we live today and the type of lifestyle we live also greatly affects how our bodies process different foods.

  • Do you have any proof, links, etc that cows in india eat differently.

    I heard some kids on youtube starved a cow , and it ate a duck.

    If a cow in india was fed different foods from people, then that is people controlling the cows diet, not the cow.

    Your point becomes invalid if we take into consideration that domesticated animals eat what people let them eat. People eat different foods in different regions, thus there animals eat different foods that are available by the people, not occurring naturally.

  • I just think there's some truth that we have different body types. ayur veda medicine, as is chinese, is very interesting, and I know from experience, like yesterday. We live in a High Desert. I survive, o.k but really don't like the dryness like my husband., but love it when we go to the beach, my hair is better, I feel better, my husband who is has a thicker body type (I am thin) HATES THE HUMIDITY, And when we have t-storms I love it, he hates it as with friends of mine that are thicker. I tend to be dry, he tends to have too much moisture/fat. However I don't beleive in the blood type at all. unless you have a needle you wouldn't know how to eat??? silly. I think it's that self knowing. I think maybe I have some pancreas issues as I wake up hung over every morning, I just got a vitamix as I need the fruit in the morning to clear out. I assume I need a cleanse or something. But even after a little fat on my salad yesterday I was ready to hurl. (Thankfully was at a Whole Foods that has a juice bar, so the guy made me a drink to combat the fat) anyway, thanks for your opionions and experiences I appreciate it.


  • My problem is my body is not how it started out in life

    I have taken a lot of antibiotics and the pill in my teens and twenties and had v bad food poisoning and I now, as a result, have low "DAO", the enzyme that breaks down histamine in the body..I used to think I was allergic to different foods before I was diagnosed with this.

    Everytime I get a histamine overload (which can include pollen etc I get really sick and I get symptoms as though I am allergic to the particular food I am eating which actually on another day I am not. My immunologist recommended a raw food diet - I did not come to it on my own and I am so glad that he did.

    My point is that we are all different depending on our experiences so far.

    Pineapple for example is high in histamine so are avocados so I have to watch these

    I have been up to 80% raw for the past year and am now 100% . I cannot just eat fruit however and have to mix with a lot of greens

    B12 is actually a big histamine maker in the body so I have to make sure `i have some B12 in my body ( regular check Ups) but supplementing could cause me to overdose and might make me go into shock ( can't breathe etc). I appreciate that I am an extreme case but I thought I would share this as it is very easy as a newbie to think that one must eat totally according to someone else's direction

    Please go easy on supplements get tested and find out id you need them .. too much of a particular vitamin can be as bad as too little and not all excesses are excreted from the body .

    Although I would love to eat high fruit low fat raw and indeed 30 bananas a day, I have to try things very gently and modify the diet to suit my health at this time

    Thank you Swayze, your website helped me to convert to raw.

  • interesting...I have a hard time with pinneapple too.

    any help with this one out there, I awoke at 3:00 with major pain in my eyes, it feels like someone thew sand in them, I can barely see.

    I have juice and eaten watermelon, and juice a carrot, and lemon water to try and clear my kidneys as I read that eyes are connected to the kidneys.

    I hater trying to figure this all out, there is no Dr that helps in that hardly any believe in this way of eating, even the naturopathic types.


  • swayzeswayze Raw Newbie

    Cows are herbivores. They may eat different plant foods depending upon where they live, but it still falls into the herbivorous category.

    People are the same way. Sure, we can eat lots and lots of different foods and survive quite well, but it doesn't mean we will thrive on all foods. Human anatomy and physiology is the same and suggests a fruit predominated diet, regardless of where you live in the world.

    As far as dietary issues, such as food allergies, this is idiosyncratic and does not change the basic formula: lots of fruit, moderate greens, and limited fat.

    You're welcome, Mysterie! And BTW, please don't feel like you have to eat 3000 calories a day as a goal on this diet. Yes, many people do eat that much and more, but that doesn't mean you need to. I am quite active right now (high intensity interval training 5 days per week, tennis 5 days per week) and yet I eat about 2800 calories on those days, still under the 3000 calorie mark. I would feel bloated and uncomfortable adding any more food at all unless I upped my activity level, which definitely is not on my agenda. :)

    As long as you feel satiated between meals, you are doing awesome.



  • so...no ideas of what would cause this pain in my eyes?

    thanks !

    hours later............

    I called my biodeedback Dr...major stress on my liver and kidneys in the verdict. so today especially, fruit is my friend.

  • swayzeswayze Raw Newbie

    Hi missemy, sorry I missed your post! I have no idea what your pain could be, but I would suggest a short fast or at least eating very very simply for the next week (like bananas and water only). Also, you could contact Dr. Graham on his forum "Raw Food and Sports" at vegsource.com and ask him.

    Hope that helps,



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