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Why no milk?

I’m fairly new to the raw movement but I was wondering if you drink raw milk (and don’t deny the benefits because they’re there) isn’t that still sticking to the raw theme? I mean, it’s one of the two edible things in nature where nothing is killed to make it food(milk&honey). I’ve been reading about raw foods for a while and it seems that everyone is a raw vegan instead of just a raw foodist.

I’m definitely not a milk drinker since I’m somewhat lactose intolerant but it’s just something that’s been in the back of my mind for a while.

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Comments

  • How do you make raw goat yogurt?! I’d looove to be able to do that. I don’t care if it’s like Kefir!

    I’m wondering why everyone is raw vegan. I hear the term “raw foodist” alot and they still say things like “no milk chia latte!” and stuff like that as if they have a real problem with milk even though they aren’t calling themselves vegan.

  • sorry, I guess we posted at the same time and yours got up there first.

    Very interesting reasoning. I mean, I’m a raw vegan but it’s only because of health issues. I just was curious why it’s such a big deal if it’s raw.

  • KhaasLadkiKhaasLadki Raw Newbie

    I make my goat yogurt by slowly bringing 2 – 4 cups of milk to 110-118 degrees F (I use a candy-thermometer). Once it reaches that temperature, I remove it from the heat and whisk in either a spoonful of saved yogurt from a previous batch, or a yogurt starter that you can purchase (or you can cheat and do like me: I did mine with a spoonful of organic yogurt that had live cultures in it from Whole-Foods Mart). Then you pour it into a container (or individual serving-size containers), cover it, and let it sit in a warm place – about 110F (in a warm water bath, above a pilot light on a gas oven, in the dehydrator set on low) for 8 – 24 hours, until it thickens!

    Once you taste it there’s no going back… :D

    Good luck!

  • From what I’ve read and somewhat experienced myself Nut milks are ideal. Now,I’m not against anyone who wants to drink raw milk, but consider that nature produced that for the baby cow. Now consider the baby cow, within the first few months of its life it gains something like 200+ pounds and thats cool for the cow, but whatever the design of the milk for the cow is not really the design for humans. We drink mommies milk, just like the cow drinks there mommies milk. And the baby cow does not drink the milk all it’s life, only as a baby!

    Also, I have alot of multi cultural friends (from india, europe, africa, japan etc.) and none of them drink milk after comming off of there mothers breast.

    My friend Niska (india) told me that she and her family does not consume any “diary type” products and due to this fact there is minimal or next to no cases of alshiemers, colonn cancer, bronchitis etc. Basically ailments that has to do with mucus buildup. Now I’m not saying that milk does not have some benefits, but ,if you ask me, If something has benefits and side effects I’m going to try something else that just has benefits.

    Also, I wanted to add in, that everyone that is lactose intolerant doent show it by upset stomach or loose bowels. Some people have headaches, hair loss, congestion problems, sinuses etc

  • In my very modest opinion milk is not a healthy food source for adults (unless you are an infant getting it from your mother). If someone is absolutely in “need” of it then it should be at least isolated, meaning not mixed with other foods. I am curious to know what you mean when you say “the benefits are there”. The primary reason for not drinking milk is that it causes unhealthy fermentation (or putrefaction) during digestion thus creating toxins. You mentioned nature in your post..in nature however milk is only consumed by babies and not by adults. Just my opinion, obviously we all have different viewpoints, that’s what makes life interesting :-)

  • I posted before I could read angie comment. So i wanted to add this in. She brings up another good point! After child bearing the cow stops producing milk. So considering that fact, Milk is not naturally produced in on going amounts for humans to consume.

  • Milk causes mucus to form in the body and is an acidifying food in the blood. It also has pus in it which I don’t think is very appetizing. Rosemary

  • melaverde, I agree totally! I say that the benefits are there because there is an on going argument abroad about the benefits of milk, and honestly, I didnt want to discredit anyones research.

    And, the statement that you made,”You mentioned nature in your post..in nature however milk is only drunk by babies and not by adults “

    I thought I was being obvious when I said,”We drink mommies milk, just like the cow drinks there mommies milk. And the baby cow does not drink the milk all it’s life, only as a baby!”

    So we are on the same page.

  • I second or third that view on Cow’s milk being unhealthy & unnatural for human consumption (and I pretty much said the very same thing about it in the other thread titled “Curious about other people’s perspectives”

    http://goneraw.com/forums/8/topics/6763).

    It’s the dairy industry’s ‘industrious’ marketing, advertising and brain-washing that has people thinking that dairy “does a body good”. When speaking about this topic I think it was David Wolfe, who recently quoted Hitler’s infamous line: “The Bigger the Lie, the More People Will Believe it”.

  • KhaasLadkiKhaasLadki Raw Newbie

    I also agree that Cow’s milk is unhealthy… This is why if I can’t get goat’s milk I don’t drink milk!

    Here’s a link to show why I do goat instead of cow: Goat vs. Cow

  • Humans (or any other animals) are not meant to drink milk once they are weaned… We are specificly not meant to drink the milk of another creature. Most human beings will actually cease to produce the enzyme for milk digestion given time, as long as they are not consuming any dairy. This indicates to me that it is the bodies natural reaction to “weaning”. The fact that we carry on with this practice disgusts me. The lactate of another living creature is not ours to use or take. It is immoral any shows the prevalance of a very egocentric attitude in our culture. Milk causes inflamation in the body, mucas production, and indigestion. My question is “why WOULD anyone drink it?”

  • —>dreasraw: We are on the same page…I posted few seconds after you and did not see your comment.

  • nothing killed to produce milk? the whole veal industry was created to get rid of all the extra calves born from continued breeding of cows. you have to keep a cow pregnant to have her give milk. and all the male chicks from the egg industry are killed too. it’s because they have different “meat” breeds than “dairy” breeds and different “layer” hens versus “meat” hens.

    http://www.veganoutreach.org/dairycows.html

  • GO BITT!

  • Then there’s cheese – rennet (the stuff that makes milk congeal into cheese) is the lining of a baby cow’s stomach. So a baby cow has to be killed in order to make cheese.

  • angie – i never knew that about cheese! wow, how disturbing. even though i don’t eat cheese anymore, i don’t think i’ll ever even crave it again!

  • I really did not know about the cheese either! Actually thats kinda gross!

  • Always something new to learn …how educational this site!

  • sheesh guys, I feel bombarded.

    I don’t care for milk and to be quite honest it always gave me trouble. However, because of all the points you guys brought up I feel inclined to say that there are benefits to milk. Of course we all know it’s rich in calcium, potassium and protein. Now, I totally understand dreasraw when she says that you may as well have something with just benefits and no side affects but for some people there aren’t alternatives. I know a woman extremely allergic to nearly all vegetables and fruit and needs milk to supply the deficiency of the above nutrients.

    I think it’s cool that you guys all choose not to drink milk for all of these reasons you’ve presented because it’s true that our “cow” industry is definitely screwed up and disgusting.

  • Hey, troublesjustabubble:) Dont feel bombarded (smile), thats the thing I love about this site. If you ask it, they will come! LOL!

    I wanted to share something interesting that somebody sent me off of the blog I posted, (if forgot his name,sorry). I read what you said about you having friends that are allergic to whole foods, and this point is interesting…..

    “And about how whole foods never make people feel “bad” – in fact, they do. Notice how people are always allergic to apples, nuts, grass – WHOLE things, from nature. No one is ever allergic to potato chips, chicken, or gummy worms. So when someone is cutting the grass, they claim that the grass is making them sick because their nose is running and they are sneezing. Then some doctor will prescribe a drug that dulls those symptoms, not realizing that the grass was DETOXING them! They only react to the grass because they already have toxins. But ask your friends if grass is the problem.”

    *Im back the guy that wrote this is “thecavsman” and it came off of the blog, It must be me! AM I CRAZY?

  • Interesting thread. So dreasraw in that quote cavesman is implying that allergies are a form of detox? I’ve never thought of them that way. I’ve thought of an allergy as the reaction of an out-of-balance immune system to any number of substances. I’ve thought of detox as something that is good for you…the beginning of getting healthy…and that detox symptoms eventually come to an end once the body is on the track to better health. Multiple weeks in a row of horrible hayfever seems so different to what I would consider normal detox symptoms.

  • It is interesting huh? I would imagine that some immune systems are out of whack which is causing the reaction, but, this is an interesting point for anyone with this kind of reaction to investigate. Besides, most people do not allow the “reaction” to happen long enough before they are getting away from whats causing the reaction or getting drugs for it! Something to think about, Thanks thecavsman

  • hmmm… in response to thecavsman’s quote that dreasraw posted… i have severe doubts that that is entirely true. there are certainly babies and toddlers who have not had enough time on this earth for their systems to need detoxing who have HORRIBLE allergies to things like nuts… to the point where their reactions can cause hospitalization. there are even instances where babies who are still only drinking breast milk can have an allergic reaction to something their mother is eating. i don’t think that detox symptoms occur in infants or are generally fatal. i’m sure someone may respond to this by saying that it could be a detox from something their mother was eating during pregnancy, but genetics also plays a hand in allergies. some genetic predispositions can be suppressed or managed by nutrition, but people who do not ‘believe’ in genetic conditions or diseases are extremely misguided (my father is a published practical chemist who specializes in DNA so i am NOT pulling this out of my ahem.) and i agree with kindaraw about the hayfever!

    but back to the topic of milk… before i went entirely vegan, let alone raw, i began to cut out dairy from my diet, and that was the first time since i was a child that i did not get at LEAST one migraine a week. i also used to have severe chronic sinusitis and that stopped it. i’ve heard that raw milk may not cause these kinds of reactions, but i would rather play it safe. before i went vegan, however, i did continue to eat goat’s milk yogurt, and that caused no negative reactions for me, so i do know that there is truth to what Khaas Ladki is saying about the human body responding differently to goat’s milk. this may have something to do with the fact that cows have 3 stomachs, while goats, like us, have only one. however, goats stomachs are broken into four compartments, so their digestive systems are still different from ours, only less so than that of cows.

    as far as ethics go… the vast bulk of the dairy industry is, as bitt explained, extremely corrupt and inhumane. i’m sure that farms that produce truly raw milk products for consumption, however, are significantly smaller and more ethically run. while the bulk of the dairy industry does function in this way, it is actually not necessary to keep a cow continually pregnant in order to keep her producing milk… a cow who has given birth will continue to produce milk as long as she is being milked, just as a human woman who has given birth will continue to produce milk as long as someone is drinking it. (just check out the british woman on youtube who breast fed her eight-year old daughter if you don’t believe me!) it is also not necessary to use animal-derived rennet in order to make cheese. there are vegetable-derived sources for rennet, and cheese can also be made using substances like vinegar. again, not to discredit what anyone here has said, as the vast bulk of the dairy industry DOES function in the most inhumane (but oh-so-fast and cost-effective what else can matter?!!!!) ways.

    personally, i choose not to consume dairy products, and i do not know that doing so is truly natural, but i do not condemn those who choose to eat raw dairy as long as they have researched the sources and spoken to the farmers about their methods. i have seen earthlings (shudder)... but i have also visited small family run farms with very happy well-treated cows and chickens. just like most domestic dogs, cows and chickens would not survive on their own in the wild, and as long as their owners are kind and attentive (and obviously do not kill them!!) they can be very content.

  • Wow dorian don’t, I like your conviction!

    As we all know, there is always an exception to every rule. Im sure that thecavsman’s, and I surely wasnt saying, that All cases are because of the body detoxing. But, it is an interesting point for someone to consider.

    But,and I’m not that old, back in the day there where alot less alergic reactions and I’m guessing because of the body kind of evolving to our new chemical based cooked diet! The more you get the body use to one condition the harder it’s going to be for it to be exposed to the opposite.

    And I see what your saying about the milk, but it still would not be natural for that 8 year old girl to drink from her mom’s breast for the rest of her life. I mean in all fairness, its kinda weird (not wrong!) for her to be doing it at 8.

  • dreasraw… oh i really think that the eight-year old thing is weird! but the woman in the video definitely thinks it’s the most natural thing in the world, ha. and about there being fewer allergic reactions back in the day, there was also less to be allergic to… less pollution and chemicals and things. i’m also young, 23, and i just feel like when people talk about ‘used to be’ we often don’t really know… like who knows if people were or were not allergic to grass back in the 19th century or whenever. i wasn’t trying to imply that you were wrong to post the quote or that thecavsman was silly for originally posting it or anything like that, i just think it’s important for people to look at the bigger picture with all the information. and i don’t think that all disease is unnatural… disease is nature’s way of cutting back populations of species for all animals. (some diseases like cancer i do think have clearly originated from a dietary and environmental shift) i do notice a lot on these forums that people cite a lot of studies or opinions that are just as discreditable as studies/ opinions published by the dairy/ meat industries and “nutritionists”, since in both cases the data released is very vague on what the control group was and other things like that. and i just feel like there are plenty of reasons to eat raw and eat vegan without all this extra stuff that’s not really effectively or scientifically proven. I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT ANYONE IN THIS THREAD DOES THIS so please please nobody get offended :)

  • oh and i think a lot of allergies are made worse by over-use of medication… i used to be a claritin junkie, and the more i took it the more i needed it… kicking that stuff was a very stuffy-nosed road… and now i’m allergy free except in hayfever season (and during smog alerts in LA ewww)

  • I’m far better off now that I don’t have milk. I still have a little dairy when I eat out (butter, cheese, whatever is used to make the food). I actually think I TRIGGERED a couple of seizures I had and brought on hay-fever about 5 years ago because of dairy overload. I was on the Zone Diet (trying to lose the weight I’d put on with the Pill) and was therefore eating loads of cheese and yoghurt (cuz you always have to eat a protein with every meal/snack and I’ve never been much of a meat fan) so that spring I started getting really bad hay-fever, which I’d never had before. Then one night I had a seizure. Then two days later another. I stopped following the diet and cut down on dairy. I’ve never had anymor seizures. Anyway, I’ve since controlled my hay-fever by avoiding dairy. Not 100% cuz cheese is really hard to avoid here in Italy, but I don’t go out of my way to eat it. By the way Europeans may not drink much milk, but they DO eat pounds of cheese. I think we’re all different, so some cheese might be ok for some, but moderation is the key. Whenever I actually buy dairy now it’s goat, although even that’s rare. I do admit missing cheese and yoghurt! Here in Italy there are RAW cow milk vending machines everywhere now. I think it’s a cool althernative to Coke. Although the whole dairy thing is so over valued. The whole “skim milk” thing is another scam. Cows that are drugged produce milk that has less fat – that’s why the whole 2% and skim milk industry came to life – to make an outlet for all the substandard milk that was being made. Yet another example of how dupped we are by the powers that be.

  • I have to totally agree with dorian don’t on this. My husband was born with a severe and nearly deadly allergy to nuts and many animals as well as avocados. He was allergic from the womb and still is. He’s not detoxing. Although I had seasonal allergies and eczema outbreaks before and now on raw that all disappeared. I think my immune system is stronger on raw food and can handle the fight.

    carmentina-I agree that I’m better without milk(I had reactions since I was a kid so I never loved it). I still crave cheese but I’m sure that will pass. I was diagnosed with migranes as a teen that were triggered by lactose. Those horrible bouts that lasted at least three days ruled my life for years. When the doctors finally figured out it was lactose it changed my whole perspective on food. I do think that milk is far better than coke and for a lot of people it’s a healthier alternative than the synthetic things they consume.

  • I agree with all of you saying that milk, raw or not, is NOT for people.

    And as far as it being one of the two foods in nature where you kill nothing to produce it – what about mangoes, apples, dates, plums – I could go on forever. There is nothing killed in fruit production as the plant survives and continues to produce.

    About that allergies quote – I will now post the article that had me thinking like that – it is not totally my original thought (I wish it was, though – lol). http://www.dherbs.com/articles/allergies-209.html

    This is from a guy whose articles I often read (and they are intentionally easy reads using common terms, so they are good for anyone you know to look at – even ignorant ones who think you are crazy for being raw). I have mentioned him several times on this site.

  • I have been allergic since a very young age and I would have to respectfully disagree with dorian don’t. I agree with the view that allergies are a result of intoxication and that is the reason why pharma products are not effective and often make things even worse. Modern medicine got nothing right about allergies, never met a doctor (and I met many in many countries) who was ever able to explain what it is, and how to cure it. They simply fill you (treat) with drugs and as a result you get even more intoxicated. Natural healing and alternative medicine (along with diet) were in my case the only answers and provided solutions and healing. In my view conventional medicine is ignoring the fact that intoxication is the cause of many so called “deseases” and prefer to treat the sympthoms (for a lifetime) as it is obviously more profitable rather than curing by addressing the fundamental issue.

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