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worried about ageing

I have had bouts of doing raw and then going completely off the rails, as it has not felt right at that time. I have transitioned to vegetarian this year, which is fantastic for me because I was raised on meat and two veg and all my family are still there really. I stayed a meat eater because my mum suffered from pernicious anaemia and I was scared of getting it, but in the end, I got a B12 supplement which I take now and then. I decided to do more raw recently as I felt ready to do so, and started with green juices, but what I have noticed, to my horror, is that I am getting fine lines around my mouth, just like a smoker. I used to smoke (up to 20 a day occasionally, and have still had the occasional one up until last year when friends came to stay). I certainly didn't have this problem when I went raw last summer (people said I looked 10 years younger and I am 49 at the moment. Up until now, I have looked much younger than my chronological age). I am scared that it will get worse and I will end up ageing so rapidly, and yet the raw diet feels so right and I have so much more commitment to it this time. Has anyone experienced anything like this or any advice they can give, I would be so grateful. I do feel so much better than I have done so far.


  • superfood2superfood2 Raw Newbie

    I don't think a raw food diet (mostly fruit, some greens, limited fats and "superfoods" - [my username refers to what I call "superfoods," which would be fruit and greens]) would cause aging. In fact, I think it helps keep a youthful glow compared to cooked foods.

    Sorry if that isn't much help.

  • pixxpixx Raw Master

    I am experiencing lines at the corner of my eyes. Up until recently, folks guessed me in my 20's. I don't think it has anything to do with my raw intake, though. I'd say it has everything to do with the fact that we are in our upper 40's. Shhhhhhhhhh.... I won't tell. ;~)

  • thanks for the comments (and LOL pixx!!!) tho in your pic you look fab! I will look into Matt Monarch's website and see what he says. I am only worried because these lines have appeared literally in the last three weeks since taking the raw juices and eating more raw foods. You could be right Lulushka, i may be stressing my body out with the yo-yo 'raw' dieting. will keep you all posted but would be grateful if you hear anything else, in case I am missing out on something vital! thaks guys!

  • If you look up Dr. Ann Wigmore you will see some of the last photos taken of her (before her tragic death in a fire) she was in her 80's and had a full head dark brown hair, her face had some wrinkles but nowhere near that of a 80 something year old. I don't think you can avoid aging, it is a natural process but if you concern yourself with aging the stress you put yourself under will cause you even more wrinkles. Enjoy life and your journey in this world. Less stress and less worry is a natural anti-wrinkle "cream" lol

    Also try eating more living foods, sprouts, greens, fruits, vegies, ect. Less dehydrated foods and when eating nuts and seeds make sure you soak/sprout them first for more viable nutrients.

  • pixxpixx Raw Master

    Thanks Debs60 & lulushka8 for the compliments! :~) Yep, it wasn't that out of the ordinary for folks to guess me way younger, but recently the eyes have given me away... alas. I'll be 46 this year. The bf recently saw a pic of me at 25, and guessed me as 12. lol.

  • lulushka8- thanks that's one of our 13 cats in our house that one is Moooo.

  • achin70achin70 Raw Newbie

    I believe what Matt Monarch claims is that at first he got younger on the raw diet for the first few years, until he got most of the toxins out of his system. When he reached a certain level of internal cleanliness, then he started aging again as a natural process. It sound counterintuitive, but it kind of makes sense. I'm not sure what he can do to take it to the next level, except learning to eat less, since doing so will preserve enzymes, and enzymes are associated with longevity. This might mean getting even cleaner, and absorbing more of his nutrients from fresh air and sunshine.

    I agree with nancyk70: Try to focus on consuming water-rich foods. Too much dehydrated food can aggravate your vata (it can dry you out), esp. during the summer.

    Also, try to watch the fructose, esp. concentrated sources such as agave and dates. Fructose produces 10 times as much glycosylation as glucose. Glycosylation is the non-enzymatic binding of damaged proteins with sugars, which lead to cross linkages, which leads to accelerated aging, including wrinkles! LOL. :)

  • Yes, the litter was born under my sons bed at 4am when he woke up he saw him and named him Moooo because of the spots .

    Sorry to get off topic.

  • SuasoriaSuasoria Raw Newbie

    Is it possible you are losing weight, some of it in your face? If you lose "plumpness" in your face tiny lines may be more visible.

  • pixxpixx Raw Master

    nancyk70~ "that one is Moooo." ROFL! How adorable!

    achin70~ Am I correct in understanding that you are saying that high fruit eaters would therefor age faster? (Fructose is in all fruits, yes?) I can't say that's what I've seen, when I look at folks who live by a high fruit diet. I'm a bit confused, here.

  • achin70achin70 Raw Newbie

    pixx: If you are a slow oxidizer, then you would probably do well on a high fruit diet. One thing about whole fruit is that the vitamins, minerals, fiber and enzymes help the body to process the fructose. Also, the fructose isn't concentrated and processed like agave, which can raise your triglycerides, contribute to fatty liver, weight gain, retinal neuropathy, etc. Fast oxidizers don't appear to do well on high fruit diets. They seem to do much better keeping a lid on the carbs, and increasing the protein and fats.

    However, I still don't think it's a good idea to overdo excessively sweet, hybridized fruits. Even slow oxidizers would be better off favoring berries, cherries, grapefruit and pomegranate (pomegranates are sugary, but the antioxidants seem to bind with the the sugars to keep the blood sugar from rising too high). Excessive sugar consumption will pull minerals out of the bones, and we need the minerals to activate the enzymes and vitamins. LOL. :)

  • Achin70. How can a person tell if they are fast or slow oxidizers? One of the main reasons I've not really tried a lot of fruits and veggies in the past is that if I don't get enough fat and protein, I just feel sick. If I eat too much sugar, even from fresh fruit, I can get light headed or a little nauseous. I know I don't have a blood sugar problem, so maybe I'm a fast oxidizer? But how is it possible to live on a raw food diet without consuming a lot of fruit?? Especially since I really dislike almost all greens and the only way I can eat them is in a fruit smoothie. Everywhere I turn I see comments about not eating too many nuts and seeds, and to stick with fruits and veggies. But if I need to focus more on fat and protein, then I would need to eat more nuts.

    I'll have to puzzle on this for a while. Do you have a source for more info about fast and slow oxidizers?

  • Hi, I agree with suasoria that maybe I was losing weight too fast and it has been really hot here, so that might have something to do with it, am trying to increase my water intake at the moment.

    And Wow Achin70 you really know a thing or two about biochemistry. I thought I was a slow oxidiser since stopping smoking but perhaps I just slowed a bit! This has only happened since taking the green juices which is why I have been surprised as I thought it would make my skin look better. I missed out on it yesterday and felt absolutely crap! On the plus side, when I do have the juice my eyes look clearer and the mental fog is disappearing and I have loads more energy than before. I am still having caffeine which is difficult to stop because of night shifts and I am still having some cooked foods as I need to do this slowly. However, Achin70 I will pull back on the fruits and see what happens. Thanks!

    I am going to persevere though, as it feels right. If my skin is ageing too rapidly but everything else feels right then maybe I will just have to get used to it. :(

  • And by the way, the lines around my eyes look better!! lol

  • achin70achin70 Raw Newbie

    Debs60: Dr. Mercola likes Tulsi tea, as known as Holy Basil. It's an adaptogenic herb, with none of the side effects of caffeine. You can try this somewhere down the line as a way to transition off caffeine.

    Here's a link: http://organicindia.mercola.com/Tulsi-Tea.aspx

    Good luck on your transition, and LOL! :)

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    Hi Debs60,

    If the lines seemed to have appeared overnight-- it could be simply dehydration, or as another had mentioned, weight loss.

    Are you getting over an illness?

    Did you change your moisturizer?

    just some ideas... =-)

  • achin70: thanks so much for the good info. I've really been looking for a good counterpoint to the high fruit viewpoint. Your description of fast oxidizers fits me perfectly, and I have been wondering for some time how I could possibly survive on a raw food diet because of the high sugar content. I'll look into it further. Thanks again.

  • achin70achin70 Raw Newbie

    rainylanie: Check out Gabriel Cousens' "Conscious Eating". There is an excellent discussion of oxidative state in Chapter 3, along with a survey to help you determine your oxidative state.

    About 60% of the population are fast oxidizers. I don't have a breakdown of of mixed oxidizers (the tweeners), or slow oxidizers, and but only about 3% of the population are extremely slow oxidizers, and they are the ones who do well on a nearly 100% fruitarian diet. Slow oxidizers in general will probably do fairly well on the 80-10-10 diet, though.

    Fast oxidizers usually need to eat every few hours to maintain their energy level. They usually have a strong appetite. If they skip a meal, they really don't feel very well at all. A high carb diet or a lot of sweet fruits will not be satifying or make you feel worse.

    Slow oxidizers can skip a meal and still feel well. A high carb diet works really well and provides sustained energy. Fatty foods will drain your energy. Slow oxidizers eat to live, rather than live to eat.

    You can definitely load up more on the healthy fats to meet your caloric needs. Nuts can be hard to digest at first, esp. if your digestion is compromised, but seeds are generally a lighter food (some nuts are lower in fat than some seeds, though, like cashews and pistachios [about 66% fat each]). Seeds also generally have more fiber, some seeds, like chia and flax, are very rich in omega 3's, and they also might be a little less acidic (esp. hemp because of the chlorophyll content). One thing to keep in mind is that when you eat nuts or seeds, you can have a green salad as well to get that acid alkaline balance going, and to facilitate the digestive process. You can also use non-sweet fatty fruits like avocadoes and olives as fat sources, as well as coconut butter, coconut oil or young coconut.

    If you have a fruit smoothie in the morning, you can use nuts, seeds, and/or a healthy oil like coconut oil to help the sugars break down more slowly to provide longer lasting energy.

    Concentrated sources of protein like hemp protein powder, chlorella, spirulina are important for fast oxidizers for sustained energy as well for a modest source of calories, and some veggies like broccoli and kale are somewhat caloric, too.

    Lulushka8: You made some nice comments in your response, but ultimately it sounds like one of your main arguments is that anyone should be able to do well on a high fruit diet. However, there is really no scientfic backing for that position. There is a big difference between testimonial and hard science. This diet works for you, and that's great. However, that doesn't mean it can or should work for everyone.

    I refer you to a work by Roger Williams titled "Biochemical Individuality". It was written way back in 1956, but today it still holds up, and it is considered a classic. We are all biochemically unique. In fact, because of genetic variability, some of us require five, or even ten times the amount of certain nutrients than others.

    Hybridized fruits are sometimes not as sweet as wild fruits. However, at least wild fruits are much higher in minerals, which help to balance blood sugar. Some fruits are so excessively hybridized that they are not even producing seeds anymore, or the seeds being produced are not viable. I don't understand how anyone, for example, can call the common yellow banana a strong fruit. It's been so hybridized that only remnants of what were once pellet-sized, walnut-tasting seeds remain.

    Any kind of excessively hybridized fruit, if not coddled by human hands, will be overcome by fungi, insects, etc. Excessive consumption of these kinds of fruits pulls minerals out of the bones into the blood in order to buffer the hybrid sugar, which is not fully recognized by the liver and pancreas. The sugar and minerals are then lost through urination.

    Also, I believe there is a real qualititative difference between natural occurring hybridization, and hybridization initiated by human intervention. For example, dogs that allowed to breed by themselves tend to robust and healthy. However, dogs bred by humans have a tendency to develop structural problems, i.e., German shepherds.

    Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone. I just want to offer my perspective. We have a lot of folks on this website who favor a high fruit diet, but I thought I should offer a counterpoint. LOL. :)

  • achin70achin70 Raw Newbie

    rainylanie: You're welcome. Good luck! :)

  • luxdivonluxdivon Raw Newbie

    Ok, i'm gonna take this from a different angle. I just read about the detox process, and how in order for your body to 'heal' it needs to go through each of it's earlier states of being. i.e. when you were a smoker. I think that what you're experiencing is further detox of your years of smoking. In the book, the holistic doctor says that they come back as acute (or quicker) stages, that if you stick to your guns, will be detoxed, and you will regain health and vitality. It seems to make sense. Has anyone else had earlier sickness symptoms occur? alot times you don't even realize that you're re-experiencing something that may have happened to you when you were 10.

    I also read that between chronic and acute stages, that when you are cleaner, the illness strikes in a stronger, more acute stage, because your vitality is high, and blood flow good. Whereas when you are filled with more toxicity the illness is exhibited in a chronic fashion. I would continue with raw. It might actually help to do a cleanse, so as to speed up the process of detoxing. I totally understand where you're at. I have rosacea, and i'm 2 months raw, and it seems to be getting in some respects worse, but i think, it's just part of the process. I'll see where i'm at at 6 months, or a year, and then have a better idea of what's going on in my body.

  • internettouristinternettourist Raw Newbie

    Some of the oxidation argument may be true. I am not a hungry hungry person, and I eat a lot of fruit.

    I am 44. I have found that whenever I switch what eat due to availability or revised logic, my skin often doesn't look as young in response. But it only last a short period of time. Last month I did some dietary changes and my pores looked big and skin not as vibrant. But today I must say tht my skin is as young looking as it ever has been (except for when I was 23 years old or less).

    Your body must be just a little stressed from the transitioning. It'll adjust; and you'll be better than ever.

  • Thanks everyone for the comments and some interesting debate on the oxidiser standpoint, the only thing I know is that people on pharmaceutical drugs can transition from fast oxidiser to slow oxidiser after giving up smoking, therefore the drugs are metabolised differently and can cause problems. However, Lulushkas comments make sense too....

    Thanks Achin70 for the help on Dr Mercola's tea, but I am wondering if I can get it here in the UK, I shall hunt around......

    Annabelle77 I have changed my moisturiser and gone back to it again, it has helped but the lines are still there. I even wondered whether my eyesight had improved and therefore, I can see them more clearly than before LOL! Again, you could be right about the dehydration, as the green juices seem to shift things on a cellular level and I feel more dry so perhaps I need to just juice and drink water, but I would need time off to do this as work is too demanding.

    And Luxdivon, I am hoping that what you have said is right, that is a bit like the principle of my chiropractor who unravels the layers of trauma that are experienced in life - I think its fascinating. I will definitely persevere as everyone else has said how good they look/feel on it, and I am certainly feeling better and my eyes are clearer so I will let you know how I get on. Thanks, much appreciated.

    PS love the cat pictures!

  • achin70achin70 Raw Newbie

    Debs60: It is my understanding my oxidative state is genetically based, whereas metabolism has to do with how fast your body burns up energy. Oxidative state has do with energy production, and your body needs the right mix of protein, fats and carbs to optimize the energy production process. This process is initiated at the cellular level, in the mitochondria. However, metabolism is changeable, so that might be what they're thinking about. Interesting comment about the drugs, though. LOL. :)

  • Oh ok Achin70, its just when I did some pharmacology during my nursing training, that was when i came across it, but my notes are now buried deep in a box, it would be interesting to see exactly what 'they' the pharmaceutical companies that is, say about it, if i find it i will let you know. what you are talking about sounds a bit like the metabolic typing that my neighbour was talking about, is it anything related?

    thanks internettourist, i think there is probably an element of that, as the net effect of the green juicing has made me look younger (and definitely feel it) in general, I am hoping it is temporary and i am going to continue to do the juicing because of its good effects and not try to worry too much about the lines.

    Going back to your comment Annabelle77, i am not getting over an illness as such but i work in a cancer ward and my partner feels that my yo-yo raw to cooked diet is all about being unhappy with the work i do (ie seeing people rely on drugs to make them better when actually it seems like it is killing them). however, I think it is also because I get so damn hungry during a 13 hour shift that I will eat anything. But, at the end of the day, its a job. will keep you posted on the outcome folks!

  • achin70achin70 Raw Newbie

    Debs60: It might be somewhat related. Oxidative state does have to do with metabolism, but it just doesn't have anything with metabolic rate per se.

  • ok Achin I will dig around for more info, thanks!

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