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What is your scientific bases for not eating meat???

Hi just wondering for those of you who are eating raw vegan for health...Why are you not eating raw meat to???

just wondering

thanks

Comments

  • camiheartsrawcamiheartsraw Raw Newbie

    Initially it wasn't scientific per se. My doctor noticed that her patients with lupus that switched to vegan noticed a decrease in inflammation/arthritis pain. The Mediterranean diet, vegetarian diets, and other low protein high produce diets are routinely suggested by physicians in order to reduce inflammation, arthritis symptoms, reduce blood pressure, and help with overall heart health.

    Here is an article on how raw veganism helps blood pressure and heart health (among other things):

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17518696?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=7

    Possible health benefits of veganism:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15702597?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

    And from webmd.com:

    "Can some fats increase the inflammatory response in people with rheumatoid arthritis?

    Yes. Studies show that saturated fats may increase inflammation in the body. Foods high in saturated fats, such as animal products like bacon, steak, butter, and cream, may increase pro-inflammatory chemicals in the body called prostaglandins. Prostaglandins are chemicals that cause inflammation, pain, swelling, and joint destruction in rheumatoid arthritis.

    In addition, some findings confirm that meat contains high amounts of arachidonic acid. Arachidonic acid is a fatty acid that's converted to pro-inflammatory chemicals in the body. Some people with rheumatoid arthritis find that a vegetarian diet helps relieve symptoms of pain and stiffness. Other people with rheumatoid arthritis, however, get no benefit from eating a diet that eliminates meat."

    http://www.webmd.com/rheumatoid-arthritis/guide/can-your-diet-help-relieve-rheumatoid-arthritis

    Why did I go raw vegan specifically? I am allergic to gluten, corn, soy and some beans, which made going on a traditional high plant based protein diet through soy, grains, and beans detrimental rather than beneficial. After reading a book on raw veganism, I was excited because it offered a well balanced vegan option that was feasible for me. I am happy to say that I feel better on the raw vegan diet, although I still struggle with lupus symptoms and am more prone to illness than the norm. I'm still better off than many of my friends with lupus and am able to work full time and have a pretty normal life. The live enzymes and intact nutrients make the food more recognizable as nutrition to my poorly "programmed" immune cells, and I have less digestive issues than I did on a bland cooked diet. I can offer more studies, but the proof for me really is in the individual results I see for myself. I did some fairly thorough research and committed to trying it, and I'm really glad I did.

  • The problem with all the studies you keep mentioning that involves meat is always cooked meat. Have you ever tried raw meat products in your diet or just go straight raw vegan???

  • camiheartsrawcamiheartsraw Raw Newbie

    If I am exposed to bacteria or parasites, it hits me much harder than a normal person (I know this from experience - I was hospitalized twice and this was long before I was vegan). Many types of fish, fresh water and salmon especially, carry a high risk of parasites. It is also very important to get fresh line caught fish rather than farmed as farmed greatly increases your risk of cancer. It is also very hard to find other meats and eggs that are not contaminated with bacteria, antibiotics, and other lovely chemical additives, and I am very opposed to how the vast majority of our meat is raised for both medical and ethical reasons. Cooping animals up in very small spaces and feeding them what is fed (this is a vegan forum so I'd rather not go into it) does not lead to healthy meat.

    When I did eat meat, I was B12 deficient, so I take that supplement still (intramuscular injections). I feel well on my diet and work with doctors to supplement where needed, so I don't feel a need to eat raw meat. The newer trend I've heard about - "caveman" diets - disturbs me. It is nearly impossible to get the quality of meat that was available in the pristine environment we had back then. Cavemen did not crowd their fowl and cattle into tiny spaces with poor ventilation and feed them a non-species appropriate diet. We don't know if they had the same kinds of bacteria to contend with, but with all of the cellular evolution caused by antibiotics, I really highly doubt it. No thank you.

  • superfood2superfood2 Raw Newbie

    I'm sorry, where are you obtaining your raw fresh meat that you seem to think there's a scientific bases to eat? What are you catching and killing? And where's your scientific bases?

  • Whoa! Down there superfood!! Seems to me djdj is asking a question, not pushing meat, RAW or otherwise. Information not confrontation.

  • leafygreenleafygreen Raw Newbie

    I really didn't get a confrontational vibe from superfood2's post.

  • superfood2superfood2 Raw Newbie

    Yeah, who would have known asking three questions (seeking "information") is "confrontation."

  • Its alright everybody im just asking a question im not trying to starting a fight. The problem that i always find with all these human vs carnivore debates always has two major flaws in my opinion. The first being that they always say how can humans possibly have hunted they dont have clawa or teeth like carnivores so they can't kill animals nearly as easily and even if they could they wouldn't be able to eat the tough flesh of the animal. My responce to this is always that although this statement is true everyone always overlooks the fact that human morphology has evolved around the use of tools which we have been doing for several million years. So yes we don't have claws, but we do have sharp stone tools and we dont have sharp teeth but we are able to cut up the meat with our tools.

    The second big argument is carnivore/herbivore/human gut morphology. The argument is that carnivores have a very small digestive (3-6X) tract compared to body size and herbivores have very large digestive tracts (30X) compared to their body size. Humans on the other hand actually dont have either (9-15X). We are right in between. So can we conclude right away that we are omnivores? No but there is one other clue we have that i find interesting. The closest living relative humans have when it comes to gut morphology is the capuchin monkey. We and they have very odd digestive systems and are relatively the same. The capuchin monkeys diet consists of almost 50% meat. So once again does it prove we are omnivores? No, but it does lead to the idea that we may be. (Also just so everyone knows that there is no such thing as a 100% herbivorous diet in nature. Even chimpanzees who are supposedly 100% fruitarian will always eat meat when it is available to them. They eat all types of rodents and when another chimpanzee dies they will actually eat the carcaus.)

  • My bad. It just seemed superfood's questions were a bit beyond what djdj was asking. Please accept my apologies.

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    aren't grazing animals 100% herbivorous? they eat all grass.

    well for me, the idea of shoving a spear through an animal, and shoving its flesh, organs, and blood seems gross. talk about lord of the flies. now I know that that seems like a real exaggeration, but unless I'm misunderstanding something that's pretty much what carnivores do when they hunt.

    my scientific bases for not eating meat is that meat is very acid, and our bodies are meant to be alkaline, and that when I eat all plants my body works perfectly. Fruit gives me the most energy, real wild, juicy ripe fruit. I have some articles that I have found very interesting that you might take interest in. I know they repeat some of what you are questioning but check them out.

    http://microbiology.suite101.com/article.cfm/are_humans_omnivores

    http://veganbits.com/yet-another-reason-not-to-eat-meat/

    http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm

    http://dpcpress.com/natural_diet.html

  • I completely agree with the animal spear thing but thats really only gross to us because thats how are parents/communities raised us to think. And no grazing animals actually eat a large amount of insects but they are the closest animals to having 100% herbivorous diet.

    I also agree with the meat is acidic thing but what about all the fruit you eat? Not all, but most fruit is very acidic, so why is meat any different?

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    most fruits are alkaline

  • superfood2superfood2 Raw Newbie

    I don't see why a default position would be the violent/kill/death one, so that's what I think a case for meat eating should provide answers.....before a vegan one would.

  • Okay but what about the acidic fruits and vegetables??? Do you just not eat those??? Also raw meat is not very acidic at all.

  • swayzeswayze Raw Newbie

    There is evidence of individuals not only surviving, but thriving on raw meat-based diets. While it would seem that this way of living starkly contrasts the diet of a raw vegan, there are many more similarities than dissimilarities, i.e. no cooked foods, no processed foods, no grains, no MSG, no salt, etc.

    There's some coverage of an Australian raw meat eater, as well as fruitarian Anne Osbourne, on YouTube (goneraw won't let me post the link for some reason).

    So why not eat raw meat? Physiologically and anatomically speaking, our bodies do not seem to indicate us as meat eaters. We don't have claws, we don't have sharp canines or molars, we have lateral movement of our jaws necessary for grinding and mashing food, we have longer intestinal tracts (allowing for slower absorption of nutrients), we cannot manufacture our own Vitamin c, etc.

    Plus, we can obviously thrive on plant food alone so what is the point in killing cows, pigs, chickens, etc. for our consumption? I can get all the nutrients I need from eating a completely raw vegan, fruit-based diet. On that basis alone, raw vegan wins out.

    And who wants to eat raw meat anyway? I feed my animals raw chicken, pork, and beef every morning and not once have I ever wished to take a bite. I'm sure I could grow accustomed to eating raw meat if I wished, but what's the point when I can thrive on delicious and nutritious sweet fruit?! :)

    HTH,

    Swayze

     

  • swayzeswayze Raw Newbie

    Oh, and here is an excellent article on the downsides of raw meat that may interest you:

    http://debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com/2009/07/no-i-dont-eat-raw-meat-pt-1-health.html

    Swayze

     

  • For science based information on the implications of animal proteins and dairy read "The China Study" by T. Colin Cambell, PhD and Thomas M. Campbell II

  • It's near impossible to find meat that you know for certain has not consumed a) grain sprayed with pesticides that are illegal to use on grain for human consumption b) other animals c) antibiotics/other dangerous chemicals approved by the FDA.

    And even if you could find it, it would be very expensive. Not to mention the fact that it is completely unnecessary to eat in the first place and lustrous fresh leaves, veges and fruits are far more appetizing than dead animals.

    There is zero fiber in meat so it promotes colorectal cancers. That's a very well documented fact.

    However, I think that if someone was to raise their own animals and ate their meat very rarely (once a month) in small quantities and compensated with a diet full of veges it probably wouldn't do too much harm.

    Tara

    Edit: Fruits and Veges are also far more nutritious than meat calorie for calorie, so if you're eating for health or weight loss, you should avoid all meat.

  • RawEverythingRawEverything Raw Newbie

    I Eat raw-meat (grass fed biological beef) for about 6 months now, and about 1 months with no greens only fruit. I feel pretty good on it and if you age it a bit (like 5-7 days in the fridge) it has a very good taste and structure.

    Most studies are based on cooked meat, as we know there's a big difference between cooked and raw food.

    Second problem with meat is that the animals are fed stuff the should not be eating. cows aren't supposed to eat beans or grains they eat grass. Grain fed meat has the same toxic effect on us as eating grains, beans and sugar directly. There is minimal health benefit if you eat grain-fed-beef.

    Another problem with meat is kidney-stones you are not as thirsty on a largely raw-meat based diet as other diets so you have to watch your fluid intake.

    Third is gout, that seems connected to eating to much lean muscle meat and to little fat.

    there must be more problems :).

    ------

    Physiologically and anatomically speaking, our bodies do not seem to indicate us as meat eaters. We don't have claws, we don't have sharp canines or molars, we have lateral movement of our jaws necessary for grinding and mashing food, we have longer intestinal tracts (allowing for slower absorption of nutrients), we cannot manufacture our own Vitamin c,

    ------

    But we do have hands and fingers and the ability to make tools to cut the meat in pieces. Raw meat you don't have to chew that hard it's actually far more easier to chew then cooked meat. The vitamin C I don't know, if you eat the complete animal raw (including organs and fat) you don't have any deficiencies. The minuscule amount of vit-c in muscle-meat (compared to raw-vegan-diet for instance) seems to be enough for people to life on, I still don't eat organs (not easy to buy around here, I ate beef hart a few times it's eatable but it has a very dens gummy structure takes time to get use to) so I think I still need fruit and nuts 8).

    For more info search raw-paleo or instincto eating, this is not the forum to discus eating of animals.

  • Yah well i heard that your suppose to eat large amounts of the animal fat as long as its grass-fed its fine. And some organs large amounts contain vit c. Also what if you dont want to lose weight??? Ive never seen a raw vegan that doesn't look thin.

  • RawEverythingRawEverything Raw Newbie

    I don't know how you can gain weight on raw-vegan.

    Maybe if you eat large amount's of advocado's or banana's may be nuts. But the amount is large to stay on the same weight, to gain weight it's huge. Maybe it's so large that it's not possible for your digestive system to properly digest the food for maximum nutrient extraction (get the stuff out because large amount are coming in already). I don't know.

    Don't forget the metabolic changes the body makes if there is not enough calories in food. Maybe if you are a long time on raw-vegan-diet and after that you increase the amount of food you will gain weight. But then you have the jo-jo effect.

    It's a difficult subject.

    People say after a certain time your body doesn't need that much food. That's true your body adopted to the new low energy food so it can function again. After a long time your body can't adjust anymore and you die (or get really sick). The problem is that the adjustment goes really slow and you almost don't notice it.

    Maybe raw-vegan-diet is really dangerous if you are not careful and listening to the signs of your body?

  • swayzeswayze Raw Newbie

    If you want to gain muscle mass, engage in strength building activities (think weights, resistance bands, kettle bells, even your own body). If you want to gain fat, then eat lots of avocados, nuts and seeds.

    Any diet plan is dangerous if you undereat on calories, not just a raw vegan diet.

    Swayze

     

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