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God bless America. God Bless McCain and God bless Palin. Sorry, just had to do that. There is so much discussion about poor ol Palin that I had to put a plug in for my candidate. ta-ta. Now to those other sites you mention!
Simplyraw, Thanks for your concerns. When I copied and pasted Mamamilk’s text from earlier today, it was saved since I had not copied or pasted anything since. When I pasted it this afternoon after reading her comments, it was clearly different, so it was obvious she had edited. I had originally copied and pasted her text because when I replied to it, I wanted to make sure I was being accurate with my reply. That is why I still had it on my computer from the “copy” and “Paste” option.
It would be nice if, on this site it would state when text is edited. Since it doesn’t, others have no way of knowing whether she did this or not.
Believe me, MamaMilk’s original statement WAS edited. Right after discovering the difference, I read it aloud to my husband and he couldn’t believe it either
It’s one thing to disagree on politics, but it’s another thing to deceive others by editing your comments after the fact and then blasting them for taking your comments out of text.
MamaMilk – I wish that you had been truthful by not going back and changing things. I’m not upset in any way if you disagreed with what I wrote. I am, truly though, disappointed with the ethics of what you did. I’m sure you were just editing to make sure I understood what you were saying, but I would prefer you clarified that in the beginning.
No I’m disappointed in this accusation. It is not different. I am not deceiving anyone. I did not edit. Tell me what you think you read rawleen. To accuse someone of misleading others is very serious. I do not understand why you would accuse me of editing unless in your passion and excitement over this issue caused you to not carefully read what I wrote.
I’m not offended at all rawleen. The conversations we were having BEFORE you accused me of this were stimulating and thought provoking. I see no reason why I have to defend myself to you rawleen.
Simply raw, thank you for taking note and carefully reading my original post as it WAS and still IS.
Sadly, this has happened on other threads, where someone was not reading posts carefully and began angrily responding.
Rawleen you said this to me:
Here’s the EXACT words from what you intially said: “but didn’t quite hit it with the fullness of point that it was intended. Of course, as has been stated in media, Palin IS one “heartbeat” away from being President should McCain be elected” That is the only phrase I cut and paste because that is what I was responding to that I disagreed with, but I can tell from re-reading your post that you made other changes as well. Why would you do that?
Ok, rawleen, you’re saying that you’re quoting my exact words from you cutting and pasting. Where is the difference between what I wrote and what you cut and pasted??? Please tell me, I’d like to know. Yes, that is what I WROTE. I don’t think you are reading things carefully or something.
The joke in the media is that Palin is “one heartbeat away” from being president should McCain be elected. (It’s a crack about his age and health). and the ‘hitting it with the fullness of point intended’ is referring again to the fact that the qualifications of Pres. vs. VP are very different. It is a challenge to all of us to think of roots and arguments that are comparing apples to apples.
Hi jellibi
I just want to comment on your very good question:
I’ll add a little note about Palin… a friend told me she has a very young child with downs syndrome. Does it seem odd to any other mums out there that she’s running for VP with a little one at home who needs her?
Unfortunately, and sadly, I don’t think it’s odd anymore since I found out that she voted to cut funds for special olympics…
http://mccombover.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/keit…
beany please please please please please tell me something good that BUSH has ever done for the citizens of the US?
And please keep churchy stuff out of it unless it supports the 1st amendment – Freedom of Religion – meaning ALL Religions. Thanks. Because I honestly would like to know.
good posts above simplyraw, nice insight. :)
You’re right I have no problem with kevlar... it’s cool. Misunderstandings can often be great teachers…. and I was a zombie by the end of the evening
I had to laugh out loud at your “one slap-happy lovin’ night” comment!! :)
I wish the best for all GR-ers… with the possible exception of one who is incredibly hateful against women. Nope… I’d find it extremely challenging to forgive that misogynistic ‘leg man’ person…
Yes, that was a beyond “low” remark.
But, having my own experences in life, like we all have…
I am sure we have all said or done something we wished we wouldn’t have.
Most of us tend to speak, before we think. Personally, I think it is the ADD/ADHD that comes out in all of us.
I like to think, that person is too embarrassed to post right now. If not, maybe later in life, he will realize the wrong in his comment. Everything does do a full circle. Whether, some of us understand that or not.
(p.s. – Yes, you guys were definitely a fun read the other night. Cheers!:))
i have a sneaky feeling the ‘legs’ quote was probably written after too many beers when the inhibition bit of the brain had been obliterated….what do you reckon??? not a peep since, I notice!
Mamamilk, I’m sorry you won’t come clean because you did edit your comments. I cut and pasted the line which you wrote earlier today, which you then edited. Maybe I’ll be the only one who knows that, but it’s true and you are being dishonest.
OH MY GOSH. I just went back to cut and paste the edited version to show you the difference between your two lines, and it’s now gone!
You have edited it again!
You’ve got to be kidding. I should have copied the two different lines to point out the difference, but I never would have thought you would go back and change it back to the original line.
MamaMilk- Where did the mysterious line go? Initially it read “but didn’t quite hit it with the fullness of point that it was intended.” Then you changed it to soften things up. But now I can’t even find the changed line because you just deleted it and replaced it with the original. Now I know why others were questioning what I said about you changing things. Because you went back and must have changed it right after I posted what you did on the message board.
Rawleen- I’m just trying to figure out what you’re talking about. Here is MamaMilk’s post regarding the line you mentioned that alledgedly disappeared:
Rawleen, I understand the point you were trying to make, but where it lost a bit of momentum was the fact that the comparisons were between the Presidental candidate of one party with the Vice Presidential candidate of the other. They will obviously have very different roles when one or the other assumes said roles.
I must admit it (along with Dagny’s) was a cleverly written little piece, but didn’t quite hit it with the fullness of point that it was intended. Of course, as has been stated in media, Palin IS one “heartbeat” away from being President should McCain be elected. ; )
Questions for everyone:
1. What do you think are the MOST IMPORTANT issues of our time in this country?
2. What are the things that you think will “make or break” us as a nation?
3. What do you think are the most important qualities in a LEADER (more specifically, leader of this country)?
Is this what you have been talking about?? Because it’s right there on page 5. I know you’re very upset and feel betrayed, but I feel like MamaMilk is a wonderful person, just like you and everyone here, and wouldn’t intentionally try to sabotage or lie to you, especially about something so silly in the grand scheme of things.
OK… I’m a blabbermouth… I admit it. a BIG blaaaabbbberrrrrmmmooooooouuuth!
But I am so afraid. I really really am. I just peeked in at the “Hello Christians” forum and it’s so very scary how many people are supporting McCain/Palin.
I wish I weren’t afraid, but I am. Can’t help it.
Why can’t people see how dangerous McC/P are???
Why do people want to be so (pardon the expression) hell-bent on the Church being involved in politics????? It’s not fair. It’s note even constitutional!
OK now the blabbermouth is a whiner. I know. Some people will see me that way.
I just firmly believe that our society is going to completely collapse under their (McC/P’s)- possible (man am I shuddering just considering it) – administration. It already is collapsing. Can’t all people see that? (I know some can… as I’ve read their posts)
And I’m not just fearing the reversal of Roe vs. Wade (hope I don’t start another ab debate here)... although I am positive that women are going to die if they do overturn it and many more children are going to be unwanted, unloved, and abused. (detractors please note that I used the word “many”, not “all”)
I’m not as articulate as some other GRers here. And believe me I thank NATURE* that people like Meditating, JoyceH, dagnytaggart, and many others are here and have used their stronger communication skills to illustrate the issues (I’m not thanking God* – whom I do not know exists and if one did it would be a GODDESS – ie MotherEarth)
But can’t our religious GR members see that the RTL issue is not the ONLY one? Can’t they see that Mc/P could care less about the average US citizens?
Don’t the track records speak for themselves? And McCain himself practically saying exactly that? (that ‘It’s easy for me to go to Washington and be divorced from the day to day challenges that people have’)
Not one republican on here has been able to (or at least hasn’t attempted to) answer the question that I posed several times:
What has George Bush done to help our country – the people, US???? (I’m using the pronoun ‘us’ here not the initials/acronym for the United States)
I practically BEGGED to have someone answer that question. In one case I DID beg.
How has be become the teflon president? Are we really that insane that we’d want more?
Please please please please help me because I thoroughly do NOT understand.
I am sure we have all said or done something we wished we wouldn’t have.
Most of us tend to speak, before we think. Personally, I think it is the ADD/ADHD that comes out in all of us.
I like to think, that person is too embarrassed to post right now. If not, maybe later in life, he will realize the wrong in his comment. Everything does do a full circle. Whether, some of us understand that or not.
SimplyRaw- wow, you are always full of wonderful perspectives. Thank you for reminding us to remain compassionate and forgiving… especially since we are all in need of it. :)
Yeap Aspire, you are right. It is now back to the original wording. I did not write down the changed version, only the original. When I went back to copy/paste it, both were gone, and now the original is back up. So, since there is no way to see the time the posts are edited, there’s no way to prove anything. Oh well. It is what it is.
Greenghost- I just happened to peek over at the “Christian” thread earlier today, too, and was a bit surprised and bothered when I read it, also. Actually, a main emotion I felt was sadness when I read a poster’s comment regarding how it was nice to be back over on “their” thread again. Seperatism. It’s even present here in this beautiful raw community of such amazing and diverse people. :(
Seperatism- the (ignorant) belief that one is not connected to others and other things – allows us to do and act in the ways that have led us to this situation we are in now. (Ignorant not meaning the same as “stupid.”) It’s present in little ways like this in our raw forum, football fans acting hateful towards other teams’ fans, etc and it’s present in the biggest aspects of our lives like gov’t, nationality, killing animals, killing people, wars, destroying our environment,etc. If a majority of us could actually realize in our hearts how connected with everything we truly are, we wouldn’t do these things that harm others. We would realize how insane it is and that we were only harming ourselves. How insane is it really to harm one’s self?
That leads to the Big Question of How Can We Overcome this indoctrinated belief system of the feeling of seperatism from other things and people that most every one of us has been fed from birth. It takes transcending the problem, I feel. We can realize things logically as true, but it is still hard to apply it to everyday life in reality so much of the time it seems. I think we have to move past just using our logical side of our brain and move more into our intuitive Right Side brain. The only thing I can offer at this time regarding that is that I know there are many great teachers out there, but Eckhart Tolle’s books are amazing in starting to practice it in our everday lives, and The Global Coherence Project is another thing one can google to learn easy ways to incorporate more Right Brain practice into their lives. ( http://www.globalcoherenceproject.org/ ) And some of Gregg Bradens’ books, Lynn McTaggarts’, and Bruce Liptons’ are also great for realizing how powerfully connected our entire Earth is to each of us and everything else. Science has actually begun to come full circle with what many of our indigenous tribes and cultures have said for thousands and thousands of years now about us all being One and all connected.
As far as how some people cannot see or realize what we do – about Palin and Mccain, I struggle with that question, too. One of my brothers is a fundamentalist, black and white “Christian” and I struggle with feeling so frustrated at how completely brainwashed he is by his religious dogma and in thinking it is his duty to force “his church’s” Biblical interpretations and beliefs on others. I think it must be exactly what the missionaries to the “heathens” must have felt and how they justified some of the inhumane things they committed. Religions have been manipulated so well to allow that type of thinking for thousands of years now. Just crazy sad to me.
Interesting to see how some others here feel the exact way we do – only from the opposite side – about how can we be so blind to support Obama. Kind of mind-boggling to try to grasp where they are coming from. All I can think of at this time is that they are also just very very indoctrinated in their religious beliefs that they are unable to see the even bigger picture. To me, religion (western and christian-based I am referring to) has much truth in it, although it is interspersed with much misleading and even purposefully (by some) false information. Because there are very amazing truths to be discerned within the intricately woven mistruths, the people who recognize the parts of truth sometimes have a hard time seperating those parts and believing there could actually be mistruths in the Bible,too. And as people have mentioned in other threads, what we focus on is what becomes “our” reality. So to them it is reality that McCain and Palin are good. And to us, it is reality that Obama is the true chance at positive change. ...So we need to find a way to envision a common ground better world for us all in the end and let go trying to “win” against the other.
Ahhh, but I am rambling…
:P
Thank you for that really well written & presented entry aspire. I appreciate your response.
It is true and sad that “we” as people do tend to dichotomize ourselves. Sure wish that were not so.
Good suggestions on the books btw.
I’ve calmed down too. Thanks.
Greenghost and Aspire
Man, you guys have completely busted my bubble. I would see the “Hello Christians” forum and thought they had this all peace-lovin’, religious forum goin’ on. Great for those to connect who are in that mindset. Now, I am wary to walk in murky water. Just because of some the things I might see. Thoughts that make you want to shake someone silly.
Well, there you go, that’s perception for you.
SimplyRaw- Lol! But seriously- – I hope we haven’t turned you off to the “Hello Christians” thread at all! I’m sure it is full of amazing, uplifting info, too. No different than this thread with its “highs” and “lows,” “good” and “bad.” It’s all relative; all depends on one’s perspective! So go on over and share and spread in the love they are able to communicate on it! Expect good from the Universe and she gives you good! :)
*slaps forehead- must remember to practice what I preach about expectations! * ;)
Divide and conquer.
Aspire – LOL, back at you. No, you guys haven’t turned me off to the “Hello Christians” site. Although, I did think they had this peace-lovin, religious forum going on. I had no idea it had become a forum within a forum… a McCain/Palin site.
I was just being funny. It was another good example of how everyones perception is different.
Religion is not really my forte… I go by the truth my heart speaks. In the end, I know we are all truly connected no matter what our perceptions are.
Kevlar – ...love the humor…
CPagosa- Hi, and thanks for joining in! lol! I know what you mean about riding a horse everywhere if we could, but that it’s not always so practical. Would be fun though! ;)
I hope it did not come across as us judging harshly. We (realize I am speaking for GreenGhost without her permission) are truly mystified of why people look up to McCain and Palin in the grand scheme. I truly can see why women could admire Palin on certain levels. I cannot understand why they cannot see past what I see as an obvious shallow mask of disguise.
You’re right; it is vey complex and deep and probably best handled in smaller steps.
The football example was just a simple example, not one that I think most people here actually relate to, just one that most (non-raw, less “aware” and moved past superificial entertainment and distraction) U.S. citizens can relate to at this time of year. ;)
I’m truly sorry that you and others felt intimidated or ganged up on here. It is easy for us all to get fired up over discussing things when we all feel so passionate about our world and what is happening in it. It would be nice if we were all really good at realizing how easily we can get worked up over things sometimes, and either take a minute and a couple of deep breaths before repsonding and posting things, or to not take things too personally from others’ posts. But it’s hard to do all the time, I know! As most all of us here at GR realize, we all really want the same things in the end. :)
It’s always inspiring to me how we can come together and discuss things from different viewpoints and not harm each others’ psyches in the process; remaining respectful and open to considering all sides. That is what is so amazing to me about this community: how open-minded, compassionate, and forgiving of each other we are even after we’ve had tiffs.
GREEN GHOST You should be afraid. Those who cherish freedom (a term not to be confused with access to gasoline/oil), particularly religious freedom, should be concerned because the threat is real and present.
I wasn’t an Obama supporter and had intended to vote for the green party. Then I realized McCain’s integrity gave way to the rabid, religious right. Now his impotent campaign has been resurrected with those who see Palin as a candidate willing to gut what is left of the Constitution, throw science to the wind, and create a new, radical, theist government.
I know there are members who voice concern that we should not allow ourselves to get caught up in our fears. I agree with that view more than they might think. However, I don’t think it serves any interest to pretend the devil isn’t at the door when he is.
Those whose goal is to establish a theist-based government are fanatics by definition. They disrespect those who don’t share their beliefs and won’t care if they are oppressed or harmed in the process. They are too self-righteous in this pursuit to see beyond their oppressive, “christian love” and will remain impervious to the evil they will inflict on others. If those outside the flock can’t be converted, then to hell with them. Literally. This is how politically inclined zealots think and they cannot be reasoned with when it comes to their religious pursuits.
The only difference, other than theology, between the terrorist who throw bombs in the name of Allah and those who want to establish a right-wing christian, US government is the degree to which they are willing to oppress and harm those who don’t share their views. Any groups that gains political power is emboldened to extend their reach. Recall the historical events triggered by leaders who believed their actions were justified by their religious beliefs. Were these not the greatest atrocities ever known to be committed by mankind?
Whenever citizens are unnerved by financial uncertainty or a cultural change they perceive as negative, that uncertainty is a catalyst for oppressive thinking. People desperately seek a means to return to a familiar time when they felt they had more control. Oppressive religion is often seen as the perfect vehicle. No wonder Palin seems inviting to them, especially given her confident “I’m tough and I can get it done” demeanor. This is why many who aren’t religious fanatics are drawn to her. Her supporters, regardless of their reasons, see her as a savior. Didn’t anyone notice that Obama has been worshiped the same way? Americans are desperate these days to believe in anyone or anything.
Make no mistake, the US can no longer avoid payment for its sins: uneducated children, unnecessary illnesses, environmental destruction, corporate greed before people, etc. The price lessens this country everyday. Remember how Reagan is credited with ending the cold war – by driving the USSR into bankruptcy over the military spending required to keep up with the US. We are doing the same thing to ourselves via these wars in the Middle East. Do you think if Russia thought the US was a real super power that they would have invaded Georgia? Our common sense, environment and humanity aren’t the only thing in decay. We don’t need terrorist to take our freedoms away. We will do that all by ourselves.
As the US continues to experience decline, the political climate will continue to change for the worse. The fundamentalist may gain ground now with a McCain victory. However, if Obama wins the problem isn’t going to go away. It will just be delayed.
Meditating
You are So Spot On! And I apologize now if this is taken the wrong way, but in all seriousness…
Lately, I find myself thinking…
Meditating for President!
Meditating -
You have no idea, how much my husband and I would love to sit down and talk with you.
Meditating- thank you for your, as always, amazing intellect and communication skills! I agree with you all the way. My biggest fear is that things are going to get so much worse in our economy and people suffer so much before the majority of U.S. citizens have had enough and are finally ready to open their eyes to what has really been going on in our country for so long now. We can start a change now, if enough of us have woken up to the stripping away of our rights and destruction of our country, but if not- it will take an even longer road of continued and worse suffering to reach the peak of the cycle to flip it back over towards change for the better.
That is why I feel it is important to be as aware as possible of what is going on in our country, our gov’t, and around the world, but then to also focus intense energy on envisioning and FEELING a positive outcome for all of us- a better world for us all. It doesn’t have to have much detail in the envisioning- just an overall sense of peacefulness within our country and our world. The details will take care of themselves once the main process takes shape. ... And, of course, still be proactive in every way possible then, too. Like get out and vote, and take responsibility for our own lives, etc!
SIMPLY RAW – I can see the White House in the post card my friend sent me from D.C. so I must be qualified. (That’s a Palin joke).
ASPIRE – I understand what you mean. Absolutely, we should do all we can to bring about positive change.
I am afraid that things will have to get much, much worse before the majority of Americans open their eyes – and we need a majority. So many of us are invested in seeing ourselves and our nation as having the best and being the best. Neither of those have been true for a long, long time. Yet, we are in denial about our situation. When you are convinced you have the best, most people aren’t motivated to make things any better.
Our news media is a BIG PROBLEM. They don’t focus in on the things that matter. Instead of discussing policies in a time of crisis we debate the meaning of “lipstick on a pig.”
Haha! Meditating for Prez! Now there’s our Real Woman President!
Meditating -
I Love It!!!
If it works for you….it works for me!:)
Sorry guys but I’m a palin fan all the way!!
Beany… I wasn’t saying you were judging… I meant this thread as a whole seemed very judgemental in regards to Sarah Palin. :) Hope that clears it up.
And… hasn’t George W kept terrorists out of the country for 7 years?? I am in no way his biggest fan, but he isn’t the horrible person he is made out to be.
It seems that everyone gets scared and/or mad over the conservative Christian (candidate or not).. and it is true..I have met some scary ones, but we have to remember that they are not all like that. None of us would like to be put in a box.. so why is it ok to put a political candidate in one??