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Nama Shoyu-free zone!

When we cook soybeans, rice, whatever, we kill the food. When something is dead (eg rotting veg, road-kill), bacteria feed on it. Yes, these bacteria are


  • writeeternitywriteeternity Raw Newbie

    Hi Debbie! I think this is ia good idea! Kandace said that when people put what catagory their recipe goes in that after enough times it becomes its new catagory on the site so people who have recipes like that should go back and edit them to say so.

    It would also be really great for people in transition to have that catagory because people are so used to such heavy flavors that they have to have something to make the food palatable in the beginning. But if they could go right to those really raw recipes when they were feeling courageous then they could start learning how to make recipes not using those products more and more. Maybe there are a few people who can go right into eating all raw but for others they need to coat the vegies with something like a really good salad dressing, a sweet and sour type sauce- it takes a while to like vegetables on their own, or mono meals. Maybe some raw foodists think people trying this lifestyle already love vegies so that’s why they are here but many people are drawn to the lefestyle fron their empathy to animals, their reverence for the earth, for personal health issues, or are even trying to get their loved ones to eat better.

    I think David Wolfe is really sensitive to the different needs out there and that’s why he trys to emphasize to go as far as you can it’s better than nothing mentality in contrast to the mentality that it’s all or nothing. Absolute-ism is hard for most people to achieve and it leads to the average person giving up.

    I think it would be invaluable to people and the whole realm of raw foodism to encourage people to use the 100% raw recipes more and more. They may be more bland but they also may be suprisingly good. The tastebuds do change I think drastically to enjoying the simple foods but this will never happen when we are using the crutch of soy based condiments constantly.

    Substitute seasonings would really help but also just being able to go to that section directly instead of weeding through a bunch of recipes that aren’t 100% would make the process easier as well.

    The question is what should everyone put on their recipe so it will go in the same catagory? “100% Raw”?

  • germin8germin8 Raw Master

    Personally, I do not like the word “raw” because it means (at least) two different things to two types of people – raw foodists & the FDA.

    I wish there were ‘precise’ words. “Raw” to the FDA seems to mean that is has not gone any process of preparation or alteration. But raw foodists aren’t looking for that kind of “raw”. And technically, “living” food may be more appropriate… but even dormant (biogenic) nuts/seeds are “living” and raw foodists don’t really eat dormant nuts/seeds. So, I like the term Anne Wigmore book uses – bioactive.

  • I’ve always been inspired by something Shazzie said when discussing why she drinks “cooked” herbal tea, which is not raw:

    We need to remember, the question isn’t “Is it conforming to someone else’s dogma?” it’s “does it serve me?”

    By “serve me” she means in terms of health reasons. Many think the bacteria in Nama Shoyu is very good for you: http://www.naturalzing.com/catalog/product_info…

    More power to her.

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    Yes Natural Zing are selling it, so they would be positive about it wouldn’t they?

    Nama Shoyu definately does not “serve me”, nor does miso, nutritional yeast, or any other cooked food that is pretending to be raw.

    When I eat those things I can physically, emotionally, and mentally feel it not serving me!

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    I am willing to put any of my 100% Purely Raw recipes against any other “High Raw” recipes at any time. No way will my food be called “Bland”. Zoe and I teach and serve all 100% Raw dishes at all our Classes and ReTreats. Usually more than half our audience have never eaten Raw Food recipes. Our food flies off the table and no one ever asks for additional seasons or condiments.

    As far as food that have beneficial bacteria. Maybe someone should come out with “Himalayan Turtle Poop” as a new product. They cold bottle it and let it ferment until the friendly bacteria start to grow. Then they could call it “Live” or “Cultured” and say it’s full of good bacteria. Would you buy it then? Count me out!!!

    A lot of focus in health seems to be on what we can add to our intake to improve our health. This is backwards thinking. As humans, our health problems are normally caused by what we ARE eating, not what is “missing from our diet”. I am not looking for my food choices to cure me. I want my food choices to sustain me without compromising my immune system. This way my immune system can do what it does best, which is keep me in a state of unbelievable health.

    My system, when not being poisoned, can make all the friendly bacteria it needs. My body has it own “drug factory” built in. It can make any substance I need. Why should I look outside myself for a cure while still poisoning myself with cooked food? The definition of insanity is “to repeat the same behavior and expect different results”.

    I’ve said it before and I say it again now. Don’t take my word for it. Just make it a goal that at some point in the future, you will try 100% Purely Raw for at least 3 months. It took me almost 2 years to get to 100%. Your transition time doesn’t matter. See what you are like without any additives. I like to call this, “meeting your purely raw self”. If after 3 months Purely Raw you feel like I do now, you’ll never look back. I’m sure of it.

  • I’m at work so the Natural Zing was just a quick reference point. I’ll dig up some info on it when I get home. Alissa Cohen sells it, too.

    If it doesn’t serve you personally, then of course don’t eat it, but many find it does serve them, so, uh, let them get on with eating it. Trust yourself and your own body, which you are doing, is all I meant, but let other people develop trust in theirs without hostility or criticism.

  • alpdesignsalpdesigns Raw Newbie

    I’m guilty of posting a recipe with Nama Shoyu too. I eat more simply now, green smoothies, blended soups, mono-meals. I used to make kombucha tea regularly. I no longer make it for the reasons mentioned above. I have transitioned more fully into raw after three years. I no longer plan recreational meals, but rather simple meals that sustain me. I’m eating for health and I don’t plan on continuing to compromise my diet for the sake of salt or spices. I don’t eat as many fats and I don’t eat complicated/condensed meals.

  • debbietookdebbietook Raw Master

    Yes, re the old ‘friendly bacteria’ argument, when I started out on raw, I was testing positive for candida overgrowth – not enough of the ‘friendly bacteria’. After eight months of raw, I’ve had two days’ consecutive negative results – hooray! I didn’t need to take any additional ‘friendly bacteria’ from probiotics, miso, shoyu, whatever. All it took to right the imbalance was… raw food.

  • humanimalhumanimal Raw Newbie

    Nicely put Belisarius. We have to practice moderation. Eliminating certain things such as sea salt, Nama Shoyu, miso, etc can bring more harm than good. How? Psychologically! Its not all about the food guys. Our minds are very powerful and are capable of tremendous healing. We need to focus most of our attention to our mind first, food should be secondary.

  • stylistchickstylistchick Raw Newbie

    i see both sides to this. i bought a salad dressing about a month ago, which seemed pretty healthy—as in organic/natural, but it tasted dead to me, it was the dried herbs in it. i don’t use much to season my food, unless it is a fresh herb, it just doesn’t taste right to me otherwise. but, i’m still drinking herbal tea, it has helped me to get off coffee, and also as humanimal says, psychologically. i still need a ritual. also as far as miso is concerned, i think you know if you body is needing it. i’ve just found out i have celiac, and i’m in the beginning process of healing my intestinal tract. maybe i’m wrong, but when i’m eating it, it really feels nourishing to me. we are all in different places in our journey. purists need to show a little compassion for us beginners.

  • alpdesignsalpdesigns Raw Newbie

    It took me a little over three years to get to the point where I am now. I may feel differently, eat differently next year, maybe even tomorrow. Who’s to say that I won’t have a piece of chocolate cake at a friend’s birthday party or whether or not one sweet treat will hurt me. It’s what we eat regularly that will determine our health, not the occasional treat. One diet doesn’t fit all. They are as diverse as we are.

  • elizabethhelizabethh Raw Newbie

    although i agree with you in some respect, i have to mention that the 100% raw absolutism thing just isn’t for everybody. i’m not even speaking of myself here, i eat very simply and have nama shoyu and the like VERY rarely…but everybody transitions differently and i think as long as a person is making an effort to be healthier, and is properly informed raw food wise, there’s very little anybody can do besides aggravate the person and make them give up on raw food because they find it too restrictive. i DON’T think a 100% raw diet is restrictive at all, in fact i’m sure its rather liberating, but people move at different paces and we have to respect that. maybe one day i will go 100% with no additives whatsoever, but i figure eating 99% raw is really good considering our world, and i find focusing on the positive aspects of your life and GENTLY easing away the negative is the best and happiest way to go for me.

  • germin8germin8 Raw Master

    Chris: Three months 100% raw – eh? I read Paul Nison’s book… and some of the detox symptoms don’t sound so pleasant… like people losing hair and having teeth problem because of the acid-to-alkaline change of the body… and people getting very thin. I think that would hold me back from being 100% raw.

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    Germin8 – Neither of us or anyone we know ever went through anything like that. I have heard far more stories of people’s hair growing quicker and thicker than before, and people being healed of ailments than losing hair and teeth. If you are scared, the thing to do would be to take it slow. I think that’s why Chris had no detox symptoms at all because he took 3 years to transition.

    On 100% I feel better than ever before, there is a really different buzz going on with it, it is hard to explain what it is like to someone who hasn’t experienced it for themselves. It probably sounds silly and elitist when we go on about it, but what else can we say? For me, Chris and the other people we know who are 100% this is the truth of it.

  • germin8germin8 Raw Master

    Thanks Zoe. That’s a comforting thought. I know the feeling of being “mostly raw”... and I would like to be “there” again. And I’m now even more curious about being “100% raw”. I’ll want to give it the 3 months Chris mentioned about… I just have to be prepared for it, so probably early next year.

    Thanks everyone.

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    I try to always suggest that people transition as slowly as they want to. In my above post I wrote… “Your transition time doesn

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    Belisarius – I truly hope I don’t come across as hostile or critical, that is in no way my intention. I am only relating my own experience…talking about myself.

  • Zoe, not at all. What I really value about this site is the freedom to discuss thoughts about our choices. On many raw foodist sites I have visited (not naming any names) the dogmatic attitude has terrified me … any dissent from raw is set upon almsot instantly, and often with great anger. Truly, Zoe, I am glad to “know” you and hear about your experiences of raw.

  • deborahanndeborahann Raw Newbie

    Is Bragg’s Liquid Aminos considered raw? I generally use this when a recipe calls for soy sauce or nama-shoyu

  • rawladyrawlady Raw Jr. Superstar

    I’ve been raw for over 3 years. I’ll say 100% – but I have used nama shoyu now and again in some recipes and dressings. And I have used sea salt as well. I can attest to feeling absolutely great eating raw, and can’t imagine eating any other way.

    My menus have changed dramatically since I first went raw, and I expect will continue to change. I now tend to eat with seasons – actually craving fruits/veges that are in season. For the most part, I fix very simple dishes. But now and again, I get an urge to throw together very “gourmet” things—and that’s fine too.

    Everyone should do what feels best for them. The whole idea is to feel good.

  • writeeternitywriteeternity Raw Newbie

    Does bioactive sound good to people or “seriously fresh!” “vegie liberation” “naked vegie” ??? any other tries? =)

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    Hello Deborahann,

    Braggs Liquid Aminos is Not Raw, but is it “considered” Raw, in other words thought to be Raw by many people. The worst part is that for years the company claimed it was raw and would not divildge their processing technique. Now we know the truth.

  • deborahanndeborahann Raw Newbie

    I was checking the bottle in the health food store on Sat. when shopping and I saw it was soy based. I figured that the soybeans probably have to be cooked in some way in order to process them, but the process of extracting the aminos is probably raw. I guess this is one of those words that is abused because there is no strict legal definition like there is for organic or low fat etc. Actually, a product can contain 1/2 gram of trans fat and still legally say trans fat free. Ridiculous!

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