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Can 'they' really do this???

ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

We all need to know about this stuff, if they get their way, on Dec 31st 2009 food will be totally out of our control. This makes the almond pasteurising issue seem like a slight inconvenience.



  • humanimalhumanimal Raw Newbie

    Wow that really makes me mad :( What can we do about this ? It is really ridiculous!

  • Hi Zoe,

    The threat that Codex Alimentarius represents to health seekers has been overblown and exaggerated by the industries that stand to lose money from having their business regulated like the drug industry is, imo. Frankly, I don’t see much difference between the two and if regulation of one can be justified, it follows that the other needs to be regulated too. The important point, however, is that true health seekers needn’t be concerned about either industry, because supplements no more cure or prevent disease than drugs do. The people who want us to believe that our right to be healthy will be curtailed by Codex either take supplements themselves and are very emotionally invested in the practice, or are financially dependent on selling them. In truth, nobody who wants real health needs to take supplements. I’ve never supplemented in my 20 years of veganism, and I know many others who have been vegan even longer who have never supplemented.

    The more that the raw world aligns itself with alternative medicine and vice versa, the more of this kind of conflict we will be seeing. Unfortunately lots of raw fooders think that everything they hear from the alternative medical community automatically has validity just because it’s not “mainstream”. Alternative medicine has modeled itself after allopathy and is making the same exact mistakes, only in a slightly less harmful way.

    To the extent that food processing laws and procedures actually harm real food, they truly are bad, of course. This being the case, it’s very unfortunate that few raw fooders are willing to speak out against the silly and baseless belief system which gives rise to these harmful practices. I’m speaking, of course, of the nearly unanimous and certainly ubiquitous “germ theory”. Almond pasteurization and the like will continue as long as the irrational fear of bacteria rules our culture. If we truth and health seekers really want to stop this insanity, one of the things we can do is educate people on the truth about disease causality and expose the falseness of the myth of contagion.

    When industry and government oppose each other, it’s hard to know which one to cheer for. They both use fear to manipulate and control us. That’s what this issue is about, from both sides. Industry is using fear to get people to throw in with them, and it’s irrational fear that got government into the business of messing with our food in the first place. It’s very important, and becoming increasingly so, to ask hard questions when we’re being told to fear something.

    Certainly I am strongly opposed to any effort that will be made via Codex to mess with my food any more than it is already messed with. But speaking for myself, since most of what I’ve read about the Codex ‘threat’ seems to be aimed at opposing the regulation of supplements, I can’t get behind the organized effort to stop it or even speak out against it. If somebody were to form an organization aimed specifically at ridding the world of legitimately harmful and/or unnecessary practices like pasteurization, fumigation, irradiation, seed monopolies, etc., I’d be all for it.

    Best wishes,


  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    Hi Nora, I don’t take supplements either, oh, apart from a nibble off a B12 pill every month or so. I have always believed that I can get everything I need from my raw food.

    It is the threat of irradiation, pasteurisation, and destruction of real food which bothers me. And the fact that a few in charge can meddling on an international scale with our personal freedom to do what we want, that also bothers me…and the possibility that garlic may only be sold through prescription – which makes me laugh, as if people would stand for that! they must be crazy!

  • queenfluffqueenfluff Raw Newbie

    Nora- I SO agree with your last statement.

    “If somebody were to form an organization aimed specifically at ridding the world of legitimately harmful and/or unnecessary practices like pasteurization, fumigation, irradiation, seed monopolies, etc., I’d be all for it.”

    I and a few other raw foodists from the Chicago Raw food community are still trying working to get some sort of exception to the raw almond pasteurization rule that is coming up. We had a “blitz” to the Sec of Agriculture recently to protest this rule which had a great turnout but still no word of action on the Sec’s part. We are still pushing on. We are getting more people interested in helping all the time but we need a big backing to make some sort of an impact. We don’t have it so far.

    One of the problems is that there are a lot of raw foodists doing a alot of “complaining” but not taking any action. Maybe we if more people took some action something might happen – maybe it won’t but I still think it is better to try than not to. If we don’t do anything, there is no chance of anything happening.

    The idea of having an organization like you described is just what we need! The raw almond issue may seem small right now but I think it is only going to escalate to other items. I don’t know the exact true in this but it is said that a lot of the raw nuts on the shelves even today are already pasteurized and we just don’t know about it.

    It is really no longer safe to eat young Thai coconuts – have been irridating them for the last few months apparently and there is no organic source available. And scraping the meat out of mature coconuts is definatley a pain! :)

    I think if we start out “protesting” for some thing small like the raw almond issue, we will already have a building block for larger (and other smaller) issues that will be coming our way.

    If anyone is truly interested in making a difference, there are things in the works – the more people we have – the better our chances.

  • I agree the threat may be overblown, and certainly raw foodists stand the best chance of surviving restrictions on supplement use. On the other hand, I see this as a freedom of choice issue. All regulations and prohibitions on personal rights, should really be considered Unconstitutional. The late Peter McWilliams wrote a great book on the subject of so-called “consensual crimes,” now available for free online reading at http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/aint/toc.htm

  • Zenpawn, As a card-carrying Libertarian (!), I thank you for posting the link to Mr. McWilliams’ book. I hadn’t heard of it before but judging by what is said on the website it looks to be a much needed work. You are absolutely right on all your points. To set the record straight you’ll notice I said “IF” there is justification for regulating the drug industry, it would follow that the supplement industry should also be regulated. The two aren’t different enough to warrant different treatment, imo.

    Thanks again for your post.

    Best wishes, Nora

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    From what I have read, the Codex Alimentarius parts that will effect raw foodists the most are that:

    Any food which has a theraputic benefit will be considered a drug, for example common food like garlic and peppermint would be classified as drugs and only for sale via the big pharmacutical companies.

    Nearly all food will be irradiated.

    Genetically modified food will be sold wordwide without labelling.

  • As I have always repeated that garlic, onions, peppers, and all their relatives are in fact drugs (or herbs) and as such deserve to be regulated as drugs are. People can harm their health if they get too addicted to these and they should be regulated (only addicts continue to eat them anyway). I do not agree that all the healthy foods should be GMO, irradiated, pasteurized, etc. This is also in the plans for Codex. The way I see it, it really won’t matter in the long run, just as alcohol was illegal in prohibition, it was freely available from many sources. If there is a large enough demand for a product or service it eventually will be supplied. The most addictive products will be the first to pop up on the black market as these bring the highest economic return. The excitotoxins will therefore be readily available first. Suddenly the cost for fertile farm land will surge due to people wanting to grow their own food in order to circumvent these ridiculous rules. It’s time to purchase as much farm land as possible before everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    I guess if one of the consequences is people growing their own food then that would be a change for the better. I long to see veggie patches and fruit trees instead of golf courses!

  • Wow, SocaL, even hard drugs don’t “deserve” to be regulated, let alone garlic, etc.. It is plain unConstitutional, our current system of regulation and prohibition. Sure, alcohol was obtainable, but Prohibition also created an extremely violent black market, just as the War Against Drug (Users) has done today. You really should read the McWilliams book to which I linked above and don’t give up your rights so easily. The government’s role in these cases should simply be to provide accurate information on the effects and leave consumption decisions to the individual.

  • spiritedmamaspiritedmama Raw Newbie

    I could not agree more zenpawn. We need more choice and more decision making powers. Let the people who make bad choices suffer their own consequences. I shouldn’t be punished for other people’s poor choices and bad decisions.

  • I come down on the side of no regulation. As adults we should be able to make adult decisions without big brother patting us on the head, saying “there, there, we know what’s best for you.” That leads to Vioxx and Avandia

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