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Unrestful sleep

queenfluffqueenfluff Raw Newbie

Does anyone else have this?

I can’t remember the last time I woke up and didn’t feel tired – like I couldn’t sleep anymore.(I think that was when I was a kid!).

Anyhow, I see have seen this mentioned as a symptom of many possible causes. One was fibromyaliga or chronic fatigue(which I am pretty sure I don’t have) and another place I saw it mentioned was on a paraisite cleansing site. The statement is that people wake up feeling like “they have been run over by a Mack truck”. After the parasite cleanse – it was gone and they slept and felt rested!

Not sure if I would use that exact phase but I am not “rested” at all. It probably doesn’t help that I clenched my jaw at night (I am trying to stop – it is difficult when one is asleep). I have pretty weird dreams – to me they are icky but in reality they are probably just plain weird. I often tend to be mad in them. I often wonder if I hold my breath when I sleep which is why I don’t feel rested (no, I don’t snore).

Even if I am eating 100% I still don’t feel rested. Actually, when I do 100% I tend to have problems falling asleep and staying asleep.

My bf and I are night owls who stay up real late and sleep in later. I still sleep the same amount of time (schedule will probably change when I get a “normal” job) so I don’t think the time matters (david wolfe says he stays up til 5 am and sleeps until 9 am.).

Just wondering if anyone else suffers from this? Or if anyone did and figured out the cure?

I would love to have a night of sleep where I wake up with that “I cant sleep anymore feeling” like I did when I was a kid. (maybe because as a kid I had no worries and slept like a baby.)


  • Hi queenfluff! I clench and grind too and a mouth guard has helped when it gets really bad. How much exercise are you getting?

  • I seemed to be having this problem after going raw. It seemed like I had too much energy but it was not working out to be an all positive thing. I did my first Tai Chi class the other day that was about one and a half hours long. When I got home I felt profoundly sleepy and just had to go to sleep. Ever sense then the energy thing seems to be balancing out. Go figure. You may also look in to sleep apnea because it can cause these types of problems also.

  • lzhptlzhpt Raw Newbie

    After ridiculous insomnia the week before the period, I finally decided to jump in to 100% raw. I’ve been 85-90% for about 2.5 years now. So after rationalizing my 1/2 c of cold brew coffee and cacao, I knew they had to go. Thank you, Zoe. I’m only on my 4th day without these two stimulants and I’m sleeping like a baby! Awake is really awake and asleep is really asleep. When I first transitioned to raw, I noticed that as well, but slowly that insomnia crept back into my life. I feel wonderful and I look better!

  • have_merseyhave_mersey Raw Newbie

    My problem with sleep is just that my cat randomly decides between 11:30 at night and 3:30 in the morning, that it is time to eat. This means jumping on my stomache or chewing on things like a puppy.

    As for your problem, yes I’d consider doing parasite and heavy metal cleanses just incase. I hardly breathe awake or asleep which is why when I do feel tired sometimes, I do. So that is a possibility. And are you having stress? You clench your jaw at night and have strange dreams, so I wondered. I clench mine til the gums swell, and I also push my teeth with my tongue (kind of worried that’s going to move them forward) due to stress. I’m hoping that relaxation techniques and sorting things out in time will heal it, but it’s also a long-term habit. So if anyone figures out another way to stop that, I am interested! Dreaming too close to the time that I wake up can wear me out..or too much dreaming in general. Again, are you stressed about anything? After a long day I tend to have to dream more to “defrag” my brain. Maybe you just have alot going on as well, and that is the reason for the dreams. I hope you figure it out though. And as for the parasite cleanses…better safe than sorry and SOO many people have them and don’t realise. So it can’t hurt to try. :)

  • Queen~ I believe your last statement answered your own question… GRIN

    Since becoming a member here, I have read most of your posts and or responses… From the different problems you have talked about, honestly I don’t know how you do sleep… Your stress level is extremely high, IMHO… If you can reduce it or change the way you have dealt with it, maybe your life will be more fun for both you and BF…

    For me, if I eat late after 10pm and stay up late, 1-2am… I feel like I have been hit by a macktruck and also remember having bad dreams… If I eat befoe 10pm and sleep by midnight, then I awaken ready to meet the world… Also during these times I only need 4-6 hours of sleep… Where as, following the late nights, I require 10 or more hours…

    These are just my thoughts, hope they help and am sending tons of stress relief your way!!!

  • MeditatingMeditating Raw Newbie

    QUEENFLUFF – I am sorry to hear you have difficulty getting a night of undisturbed, restful sleep. Lack of a good night’s sleep and morning lethargy can be a symptoms of other physical illnesses. In addition, while common sense would dictate the latter is a symptom of the former, that is not always true. They could be distinct symptoms (adrenal fatigue comes to mind).

    The medical conditions that come to mind that include these symptoms are sleep apnea and adrenal imbalance. It is common to find those with adrenal fatigue to have thyroid issues too, but not necessary. I suspect diet, such as a proper mix of adaptogens, could help if it is adrenal fatigue. Diet may helps sleep apnea if you need to lose weight, which is often a contributing factor. If not, sleep apnea has to do with how the tissue in your throat relaxes while you sleep.

    You may want to consider looking online to see if you have other symptoms of either condition or just searching WebMD or DiagnoseMe for your symptoms in general. Good Luck.

  • queenfluffqueenfluff Raw Newbie

    thanks everyone for your advice so far!

    harmonylia – I used to grind too – I am pretty sure I have stopped and I just clench now. I still have my mouth guard. It is pretty bulky so maybe it might help to relax my jaw. When I try to keep my mouth relaxed I end up with drool on the pillow when i wake up. Of course I have problem with the TMJ joints too (my dentist said my orthodonist removed the wrong number of teeth when I was small and now I have an uneven bit because of the uneven number of teeth on top and bottom). Right now, I don’t get hardly any exercise but even when I had a very physical job and got tons of exercise I still felt like this when I wake up. Then I didnt get enough sleep – now I get tons but still feel out of it.

    rosehebrew – Yes, I was thinking about the sleep apena – My bfs relative had this and she was telling me about it a while back. I think that she hardly ever got any sleep because it kept waking her up. I don’t always wake up in the middle of the night so I am thinking it is probably not that. I could sleep like a stone for a whole eight hours but still feel tired (I almost feel like I was running in my sleep in a way – for lack of a better way of putting it – or I was “fighting” in my sleep)

    lzhpt – I actually did sleep better when I gave up coffee but that was like 2 years ago. I do have cacao in my smoothies but not everyday.

    have_mersey – Yeah, one of my cats do that too – although not usually at that time! Normally in the morning if it is past 9 am she will bug me to death – actually I think it has more to do with whether or not the food bowl is low or not. My bf wakes me up more than the cats do – he flops around like a fish. It drives me nuts. Yes, I have stress but even on nights that I don’t worry about thing and go to sleep with out a thought on my brain – I still wake up feeling like that. I am beginning to wonder if it normal for me. That would suck. I guess my dreams are like SUPER strange – to me they are weird – well, I guess I just don’t like them. Have you tried the parasite cleanses?Just wonder if what kind of results to expect.

    waterbaby – Yeah, I still have worries.:( I have always been a worrier. Things could be perfect and I will still worry – I get this learned behavior from my dad. I try really hard to fight it – it is like a natural behavior for me like breathing. I have always been a night owl – I haven’t really noticed a difference between eating and when I go to sleep but I have heard about that before – I will try it for a day or something and see how it goes. I don’t think I will be able to swing going to sleep that early (my bf stays up until like 3 or 4 am – and I see the lights so I have a hard time getting to sleep.). I normally don’t eat after 10 pm – not on purpose but it just ends up that way. I do drink water though. Should I not have any water either? Thanks for the nice thoughts!

    Mediating – I am not familiar with the adrenal fatigue. I will definatley look that up! For the sleep apnea, I don’t need to lose weight (except some fat on the tummy area) – I am a size 4 – so I am pretty thin. So the tissue in the throat sounds like it could be something.

    I am wondering if maybe ‘completely rested’ just feels different after a certain age. Maybe it isn’t the same as I remember – seems unlikely – althought it is hard to know how others feel when they are ‘completely rested to compare it too.

    So I am definatley looking into the sleep apnea (could my bf be able to tell if I am breathing or not?) although I don’t think I have that and the adrenal fatigue and a parasite cleanse. Thanks all!

  • Queen~ Your BF would know if you have sleep apnea… There is a loud gasp with choking and sputtering sounds following no brathing… It is also caused from drinking alcohol over the years…

    I don’t see anything wrong with having water whenever you want it… It doesn’t require the body to work on digesting it… GRIN I however, would have to get up to go potty in an hour or two… LOL

  • steviostevio Raw Newbie

    Sleep apnea does not always result in becoming fully awake, nor is it always noticeable by the person who shares your bed. It can be more subtle than that. The best thing you can do for yourself if sleep really is a long term problem is get a sleep study done.

    Sleep apnea is not always caused by being over weight, sometimes the apnea leads to a cycle of behavior that causes the weight gain. Fatigue -> sugar craving for energy due to poor sleep -> not enough energy to maintain active lifestyle -> weight gain -> worsened apnea -> stronger cravings -> etc.

    I am one of the unlucky few with both obstructive sleep apnea (the physical blockage of the airway) and central apnea (the brain forgets to tell your body to breath). The treatment for the former exacerbates the latter.

  • Queenpuff, I’m not sure how your diet is excactly, but I had that problem right when I went raw. It shortly stopped after about a week, I think it was a detox. Then, when I started 811rv I couldn’t sleep at all. It was terrible. I was waking up every hour, and then every other hour to go to the bathroom. I know longer have those problems. Once I again I believe it was due to another detox. Also, clearly my blood sugar level’s were off, which makes perfect sense. I believe my blood sugar is leveling off where it’s suppose to be. I sleep great now a days. I absolutely love living more than I ever have!

    So what I’m trying to say is, take a look at your diet. Research everything you are doing. Then research the answers you find. Once you get an idea of exactly what’s happening, you should be able to work out all your little kinks. Good luck!

  • Branwyn32Branwyn32 Raw Newbie

    Very curious about this too…I haven’t woke up feeling rested in YEARS. I don’t remember the last time I wasn’t tired. :(

  • queenfluffqueenfluff Raw Newbie

    I was reading on the adrenal fatigue and I have many of the symptoms listed on there.

    Fatigue = I have a litte of this; sometimes I have more of it. Feeling tired despite sufficient hours of sleep = Have pretty much all the time Insomnia = I have trouble falling sleep or I am not sleepy Weight gain = I dont have this at all Depression = I have this sometimes Hair loss = I don’t have this Acne = I dont’ have this; I still get pimples once and while but no regulary Reliance on stimulants like caffeine = I don’t take any caffefine except cacao Cravings for carbohydrates or sugars = Not really sugars I crave but bready thing sometimes pasta Cravings for salt = I have always loved salt; although I don’t think I eat to much of it daily Poor immune function = Not sure what this means; I never get sick. Intolerance to cold = I have always had this all my life. I just hate the cold and always have.

    The site didn’t show much about how to get rid of it though. I will have to look at some other sites. I want, of course, the raw natural way to fix this (if this is what I have) – no medicines. I do herbs though.

    I will say one thing I notice that I feel more rested in the AM if I sleep on my back (or end up that way) but it is so hard for me to fall asleep on my back. If I am on my back I tend to not cletch as much too (or at least it doesn’t seem like it because my jaw isn’t tense or sore in the AM).

    I thought of something else too. I had my nose fixed for a deviated septum sort of deal (and yes, it was really fixed for that not a nose job!) My septum bone was all crooked but I didn’t figure this out until I was like in my early 30s. So, I had that surgery so I could breathe better (the doctor told me I had very small narrow breathing passages and I have a tiny nose. I also have very soft cartlidge near my nostrils – It collapes very easily (I can move it and suck in it by just breathing in real hard through my nose). At one time, my doctor wanted to but a stitch there to help hold it in place. I am wondering if this collapses in on one of the sides when I sleep thereby not letting me get enough air. This might also be the reason that I sleep better on my back – the nostrils don’t get mushed in on the pillow while I sleep. Not sure if any of this is true but just some guesses.

    Stevio – what is causing your physical blockage? Is it a deviated septum?

    TreeOfLife – Well, I am definatley not on the 811 – that raw diet doesn’t appeal to me at all. I don’t think it is detox since I have felt like this even before raw. I think it is all the sugar in the fruit that would cause one not to sleep on the 811 – not sure is that is true just my guess. I don’t think I eat that much sugar really – I eat some fruit in the morning (and I don’t do that every morning) and a smoothie (not green – I don’t like green smoothies) which normally has a bananna, some misc fruit, cacao, maca, agave, MSM and maybe lucuma or mesquite in it. Sometimes coconut. I normally don’t eat anything else sugary for the rest of the day.

    I still want look into the parasite cleanse as I have wanted to do one of those for a while anyhow.

    Oh, just to clarify – once I am sleep I normally sleep like a rock. I might wake up once or twice to go to the bathroom (Yeah, I should stop that water too close to bed!) or I wake up and turn over. I don’t really lay around trying to fall asleep again – I can fall asleep right away again.

    Branwyn32 – Aw. :( I know how you feel of course. I thought this would be better on raw and it really hasn’t changed. I am still searching for the answers/solutions. If I figure out something that works for me, I will let you know.

  • MOTHMOTH Raw Newbie

    How long has everyone with unrestful sleep been totally raw?

    I have so much energy, I have a hard time sleeping, but I am seldom sleepy. My mind gets racing right before bed even if my body is ready for rest. I consume no stimulents and eat just about everything whole. What’s helping me is getting in bed at the same time whether or not I feel like going to bed. Just “setting the mark” for that activity and then breathing deep in and out through my nose to settle my mind. Also: I cannot eat about two hours before bed, otherwise I will get an energy burst that drives me crazy.

  • queenfluff, gentle massage to scalp, face, ears and feet with some oil (preferably sesame) for 20-30 min before going to bed, will help in getting deep sleep. Reducing/Avoiding salt intake also helps in feeling restful. Salt is an irritant (especially, the supermarket variety).

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    Hey there QueenFluff.

    I had the same problem for years… and I also think I may have had a similar lifestyle. You mention that you dont have a ‘real job’. Are you a waitress? Bartender?

    There are many things that often go along with the night-life jobs… like drinking after most shifts, smoking, and injesting various other substances. My bf goes to sleep between 5am and 9am, then wakes up for work by 1 or 2, and then drinks cup after cup after cup of coffee, and smokes way too many cigs. He suffers from insomnia… When he talks about it, and wonders why it happens.. I say “the first thing a doctor would tell you is to stop the coffee, booze, and smokes and we can go from there”

    Im not saying that I think that you have these habits. I know I did until I got a ‘real’ job.

    anyway, have you ever tried melatonin?

  • queenfluffqueenfluff Raw Newbie

    toggoesraw – I often do scalp massages for hair growth – Yes, works really well to relax the head. Does the sesame oil have any special effect? I do like salt though. I don’t eat the supermarket stuff and haven’t for years. I eat the himalyan pink or celtic sea salt grey. Even when I have practically no salt, it is still the same so I honestly don’t think salt is my problem. even though I love it – I honestly don’t eat that much. I believe salt is necessary for the body in a certain amount.

    Annabelle77 – Nope. I don’t do any of those things. I rarely drink – and actually if I do it really puts me to sleep esp wine. I don’t have a night shift job anymore and haven’t for a longtime. I don’t have a “normal” job – meaning I work from home and I don’t have to get up or go to sleep at any certain time. What foods would melatonin be in? I don’t like taking synthetic pills (I hate swallowing them). I would be open to drinking teas though.

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    I’d have to look that one up. Melatonin, I think, is a precursor to seratonin… and both of those regulate sleep. I was having insomnia a few months ago, and was taking Melatonin for it. AT the same time I was taking 5HTP for help with a bout of depression.

    I was unaware that 5HTP is also a precursor to seratonin. What ended up happening was terrifying. I would plunge into deep sleep way to fast and have TERRIFYING nightmares, sleep apnea too. I wonder if there is an imbalance of these chemicals in your brain…

  • hey queenfluff, looks like you already mentioned this, but some of your symptoms (well, a lot of them) look to me like physical manifestations of depression, especially always feeling tired. i have many of the same, and depression was the only thing we couldn’t rule out, even though i don’t always feel sad. if you don’t see a therapist (read: not necessarily psychiatrist or doctor, just someone who knows how to handle your situation when your friends and family might not), you might give it a try.

    either way, know you’re not alone with a lack of restful sleep. i’m also going to look into these methods everyone has so helpfully mentioned. s

  • I have depression, too, and going raw is one way I’m trying to deal with the horrible fatigue that constant existential angst brings with it. I’m a natural night owl, too. My natural sleep habits would have me sleep from 2am to 10am. BUT, I’ve found that sleep BEFORE midnight counts for almost double the sleep after midnight. If I go to bed at 10, I feel fairly rested at 6am. If I go to bed at 9 (I know, it sounds like an impossible thing to do), I can actually stand waking at 5am. It’s strange, but there are a lot of people who swear that going to bed early as well as a healthy diet cured them from cancer, etc.

    Also, I make it a rule not to watch anything other than comedy after 5pm. If I don’t, I’ll be teeming with depressing and stressful thoughts for hours and hours. (Who cares if friends and family are a little put out by it? We’re talking about major mental health issues. It’s worth it for peace of mind). As I fall asleep, I’m learning to put aside any serious thoughts and focus only on things I enjoy or people I love.

    One last thing. It depends on your symptoms, and if you’re manic-depressive, then DON’T try this, but if you have just depression then Sam-e is a great over-the-counter mood stabilizer. Take a low dosage without any added B vitamins, and it can really help with depression without adding to the insomnia. I tried St. John’s and 5-HTP, but Sam-e is the only one that really works for me. I have the kind of depression that can get scary, so if it works for me, I imagine it’s some good stuff.

  • chicorychicory Raw Newbie

    please don’t take 5HTP! it skips the conversion step in the body that occurs between tryptophan to serotonin, there is evidence showing that it crosses the brain blood barrier. the body makes tryptophan into 5HTP, which is made into serotonin in the brain, where it is supposed to be. If that conversion step is missing there is possibility of having high serotonin levels in the blood which can be dangerously toxic. If you are having trouble sleeping, you could be getting too much MSG. Do you use fermented products, soy products, enzymes, or vegetarian supplements or capsules? They all have MSG and can cause insomnia, achiness, and increased urniation

  • MOTHMOTH Raw Newbie

    I used to take 5-htp before taking MDMA (ecstasy) rolls, and afterwards to recover…

    For some reason, it really did help. I think it does cross the blood-brain barrier.

  • hi ww, i tried sam-e too because it’s supposed to be all-natural. it worked – in the sense that i couldn’t concentrate on depressing thoughts… or anything else, for that matter. it made me feel like a basketcase for a few days, but then it all evened out and i felt consistently better. but not better enough to justify the price every week! as with all things, i guess it just depends on your body. i should try that no-tv-but-feel-good-tv thing, too – i live in oakland, ca, one of the crime capitals of the nation, so i get worried if i watch the news, even though i feel out of touch NOT watching it. a catch-22, my friends. s

  • bittbitt Raw Newbie

    i have jaw clenching too. definitely stress related for me. i have read the parasite thing and i am interested to do a cleanse but right now can’t afford to lose the day of food and nutrients. i need the energy.

  • queenfluffqueenfluff Raw Newbie

    Thanks everyone for the great advice! I am taking it all into consideration.

    I do have some depression/anger/frustration issues they include many things and it isn’t consent – sort of comes and goes. I guess it is just if issues come up. They have to do with finances, job (or jobless) related issues, past family issues and a few health issues (mainly my hearing loss which I have a hard time dealing with).

    Ok, so I have decided that my first experiment in figuring this thing out it to try to sleep on my back as much as possible even though it isn’t my most “comfy” position. I tend to notice a more “rested feeling” if I wake up and I am on my back. So my first theory here is that because of my jaw and past/current nose problems that if there are issues with my breathing or jaw clenching – I will be avoiding those on the back. I kind of have this weird uncomfortableness of falling asleep on the back – mostly having my mouth open while I sleep and either drooling all over or a bug crawling in mouth while I am asleep. I know dumb. I just won’t sleep that way when I go camping I guess. :)

    So, I am going to start tonight and I will report how I feel. :)

  • steviostevio Raw Newbie

    To answer your direct question, obstructive sleep apnea generally is a result of the throat muscles being too relaxed, and as a result the airway within collapses and restricts flow. This causes you to wake up enough to keep breathing to avoid dying, but robs you of REM stage and delta stage sleep.

    My septum is straight as can be. I had it fixed by a top notch surgeon, and then had it revised again by another top surgeon as the first attempt resulted in less than optimal results. Having clear nasal airways is essential for CPAP therapy (which is what I use to correct the obstructive sleep apnea).

    I also had a poor nasal valve (the cartilage inside the nose that keeps the nostrils open) and had a piece of ear cartilage put in there to reconstruct it. Before doing that, I used breathe right strips every night with some success. THis might help you as well.

    As for moth’s question about the teired people and raw, since going raw, my energy levels have skyrocketed despite my sleep problems. I have more energy and focus than ever. I have given up coffee effortlessly.

    It all started with a single green smoothie, which made me feel so good that I just followed my new cravings and aversions and was 95% raw within the week.

  • queenfluffqueenfluff Raw Newbie

    stevio – Thanks! Ah, that is what that is called the nasal valves! Didn’t know that. Yeah, mine are soft and sort of “collaspable”

    Thanks for the suggestion on the breathe right strips. I guess those would help keep the nose as opne as possible. :)

  • Lie in Shavasana before going to sleep. This also helps in getting relaxing sleep.


  • queenfluffqueenfluff Raw Newbie

    thanks tggoesraw – Ill look into that!

    Well, update on my new “sleeping experiment”. I purposely slept on my back last night. I had a hard time getting to sleep because I wanted to keep turning onto my side but I used my neck roll pillow which helped and I felt ALOT better in the morning.

    Most important, I didn’t wake up feeling like I had been holding my breath all night. I usually wake up feeling sort of “out of breathe” (for lack of a better way of explaining) – I normally feel like I have been running in sleep. My chest felt pretty relaxed and no achey feeling.

    Secondly, when I woke up I WAS slightly clenching my jaw as my teeth were touching but my jaw wasn’t sore at all! Normally, my TJM joints are sore and achey when I wake up.

    Some of muscles were achey in other parts of my body – probably because I am not used to staying on my back like that but that was OK. I think I was clenching my fists because my finger muscles were sore but other than that I actually felt pretty “rested”! My neck was sore because of the neck roll but I think what I need is a new pillow. Mine is a thin organic cotton one that has gotten too flat over the years so I am looking into t new poufier one that is good for people who sleep on their back.

    So so far so good! Tonight on the back again! :) I am so gonna miss sleeping on my side but I would rather be well rested instead. :)

  • dodododo Raw Newbie

    funnily enough ive had the oposide since i changed my diet, i had been vegan for over 8 years, but was still eating a lot of crap, ive cut sugar, coffee and wheat flour (not wheat berries) and msg and all additives now for 3.5 weeks and am 90 to 95% raw, and whereas previously i never woke up refreshed i now sleep like a baby, have no trouble getting to sleep, sleep all night with no probs and feel good within minutes of the alarm screaming at me in the morning.

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