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b12 and raw/vegan

powerliferpowerlifer Raw Newbie
edited July 17 in New to Raw

Hey what is everyones views on taking a b12 supplement whether raw or vegan/both. I take a sublingual b12 supplement.

ive asked a few forums there views just wanted to know what the majoritys views here are.

cheers

 

Comments

  • edited July 17

    don't need it.

    check out durianriders youtube video on his bloodwork he got done...

    http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=durianriders

     

  • powerliferpowerlifer Raw Newbie

    again durian is a small case, we could say from his tests that he doesnt have sufficient sodium levels etc.

    i love his videos though passionate guy, but one guy shouldnt give example to a vitamin that surely needs replenished? You can spend a few years sufficient as your liver holds sufficent levels but what after that.

  • Here is a link to a discussion on 30bananasaday.com .. it talks more about b12 issues and what not for those that are interested. Find what works best for you :D

    http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/the-final-word-on-b12-end-all?xg_source=activity

  • I like Jack Norris's advice. Myself, I take a supplement. http://veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12 http://jacknorrisrd.com/

  • I was taking a supplement but i recently learned that if you are eating a great variety of foods you do not need the supplement and sometimes the supplements are not really great for your body if they are not necessary. I just got done reading Fit For Life which had some very useful info on B12. Again *I am still new to this* but these are my notes on B12 from that book which i thought were helpful:

    "The bacterial flora (good bacteria that helps us digest and combats bad bacteria) in our intestines produces B12. The stomach secretes a substance called intrinsic factor which transports the B12. Our need for B12 is so minute that is is measured in nanograms which is one billionth of a gram. One milligram of b12 would last a person over two years and healthy people usually carry around a 5 year supply already."

    So whether this is 100% completely true i can't say because this is just from one book but i will say that i do not see a need to take a supplement for B12 for me personally at this point in my journey of learning about nutrition. =D

  • If you don't want to supplement (and that's a personal choice), my recommendation would be to periodically blood tested since the body can store Vitamin B-12 deficiency can take a while to develop. But I wouldn't recommend just consuming a lot of foods and assuming you are getting b-12. It's just not very common in plant materials. Many that are reported are simply unreliable (e.g. spirulina, sea vegetables). There are reports of real B-12 in chlorella. And of course their is always fortified yeast. But to me a reliable supplement is the easy way to avoid B-12 deficiency which is both serious and irreversible. YMMV.

    Paul

  • I agree with Paul's suggestions. To add something else- yes, our intestines make B-12, but it is generally past the point in the intestine that we actually absorb it. Essentially, our waste has b-12, but we don't benefit from it. This is why some raw vegans actually use their own waste to fertilize their veggie garden's (and then don't wash their veggies before eating). Not really common, but I have read of it online.

    Myself, I would go for the supplement.

  • powerliferpowerlifer Raw Newbie
    edited July 17

    yeah good points guys, the plant sources just arent viable b12 sources.

    its annoying i think redstar is the brand in america that has fortified b12 yeast flakes. Here they have similar but with no b12 abit annoying really.

     

  • thnx, this info caused me to look into this a little more online... it seems that it is true that we can't rely on our bodies to produce sufficient amounts or rely on the small traces found in plant foods. We are less likely to develop a deficiency if we take some kind of fortified food or supplement. You learn new things everyday :)

    this was one of the sites i was looking at for reference http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/everyvegan/

  • Yup, that's Jack's site. Jack is about as straight a shooter in the vegan community as you will find anywhere. Same site I quoted above on post 5. He's in the same vein as Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina. He's not afraid to challenge vegan dogma and misstatements when he finds them. Here is a link to a talk he gave on vegan health (including B-12) a few months back.

    http://video.vsh.org/Norris.html Mind you, it's an hour presentation and covers all aspects of vegan health, including but not limited to B-12. It's an hour but an hour well spent in my view. I've watched it twice and may go for my third time. I pick up something each time.

    Paul

  • nsns

    Do you know if you are b12 deficient? I have been a vegetarian for several years and partially raw for almost a year. I feared that I might be b12 deficient but my blood test showed I am fine. I just eats lots of greens and vegetables and fruits of all kinds.

  • There is a lot of controversy about B12, Also about the testing of B12 amounts. One thing that most people are agree on is that there is no B12 in veggies and fruit.

    There is some B12 in seaweed but it's not very effective.

    There is B12 on veggies and fruit but most people wash their food, so it's gone again.

    People make B12! only the body doesn't do anything with it.

    To eat perfect body compatible vegan B12 you must eat things nobody wants to eat.

    Find the right and functioning B12 supplement!

  • NS,

    Remember that the body can store years worth of B-12 and so it can take years for the deficiency to develop. One blood test has limited time value and if you don't supplement, it should be done periodically at least once a year.

    Paul

  • http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/meas

    just having low homocysteine rates appears not to be sufficient (extra B6 and folate can confound that measure). Jack suggests having your methyl malonic acid levels (MMA) tested to help distinguish between active and inactive B-12 activity. Hope this helps.

    Paul

  • I do take a B12 supplement. It's just a liquid shot once every few days... I'd rather be on the safe side, no harm in being cautious.

  • I'm 100% raw and eating well, I live in South Africa so we've got great variety of fruit & veg all year. Anyway, I stopped my B12 supplements after going raw. On levels of energy and radiant health I was up there on raw, but then after a month I started feeling depressed, listless, craving food all the time no matter how much raw stuff I ate. I realised that it's crucial to not fall into full-blown depression, had already lost a week in my life by then, so I recently started supplementing B12 again. It made an immediate difference. No depression, no nonstop eating impulses.

    what I want to say is I respect your personal choice to supplement or not, for whatever reason, and I don't think everyone going raw out there are vit B deficient, but what I've realised is that if I am naturally vit B deficient and I see that much of a difference if I'm supplementing or not, then I won't take the risk of developing grave symptoms because I have a moral or other issue with it.

    if you need it, take it. if you don't, by all means don't worry about it :-)

  • M42M42

    I take B12 supplements. The consequences when getting a B12 deficiency is quite large and I don't see a practical downside to supplementing (except maybe cost).

  • nsns

    Could some of you share your experience with b12 dosage? Thanks.

  • I take 45mg of Bcomplex with a 5mg folic acid in the morning, and 45mg Bco again at lunch. Keeps me out of trouble in the eating and groggy department. Not sure what a doctor may prescribe.

  • He is very interesting! I think he is right-malabsorption.

  • lol~ this ironic for me! :P I've been vegan for 11 years. Yesterday I went to the doctor (on advice from some very helpful people here!) and turns out I have a pretty intensive b-12 deficiency. We had thought that in the last couple years...since 2008 that my memory loss had been due to trauma but it was probably the beginning of the deficiency showing. I have developed symptoms such as not being able to focus, can't remember much short term and longterm, dexterity problems...dyslexia...the list goes on! I know its pretty extreme...and because I didn't learn more about it even when I had heard that it may be part of my problem before ...blah!

    I started vitamin code raw b-12 yesterday afternoon - and I have to admit that I'm feeling calmer already (silly I know :P). I'm getting brain scans in a month and so....but my naturopath says its mostly likely the cuprit, especially since I'm celiac the likelihood of me not have the stores that everyone else talks about is even lower. I'm not saying that its necessary for everyone but I suppose....its good to be tested and efficiently educated on the matter so you can make your proper choice! and its wise not to be macho about one's health!

    :)

  • powerliferpowerlifer Raw Newbie
    edited July 17

    glad to hear you caught it artist, long term b12 deficiency can cause irreversible damage to the brain and nervous system.

    maybe look into asking for b12 injections.

     

  • I don't know what my B12 levels are, but I think they must be ok as I'm well except for having eczema.I get tropical fruit juice from Lidl that has 12 vitamins added to it, including B12. I will be buying much more of this juice now and using it for my smoothies.It is only 99p for a huge carton.

  • suekosueko Raw Superstar

    I take a liquid B-12 supplement given to me by my naturopath who checks my blood levels from time to time. Most people, (80% of the US population) vegan or not, are now B-12 deficient. (Probably due to our deteriorating soil, air and water quality). Get your homocysteine level checked and make a decision from there, you may want to get further testing after that, as Paul advised.

    Victoria Boutenko made a good point at a talk I attended. She said she never washes her organic produce because the B-12 is available as a microbacteria in the soil. Depends on whether or not eating dirt is your cup of tea, I guess.

  • "Get your homocysteine level checked and make a decision from there, you may want to get further testing after that, as Paul advised. "

    Did you mean me sueko? I have no chance of getting my B12 levels tested- the doctors won't even give me an allergy test for the eczema I have! It's not like this here In Britain- you cannot get the tests you want, unlees they want to do it- e.g they think you are very ill! I'm having to go to a health shop next week and pay for my allergy test- cannot get one on the NHS- I have been asking for years and they tell me allergies/intolerances etc have nothing to do with eczema! Of course, this is not true, but they won't listen to me.

    "Victoria Boutenko made a good point at a talk I attended. She said she never washes her organic produce because the B-12 is available as a microbacteria in the soil. Depends on whether or not eating dirt is your cup of tea, I guess."

    I have started leaving a bit of the soil in my organic veg, yes- the lettuce I ate for dinner had some in it- I must say it tasted great!

    A few months ago I went in the organic shop to collect my order and as I was putting the vegetables and fruits into my bag I noticed there was a slug sitting in the cabbage! I said to the girl-"Look! There is a creature in my cabbage!" She looked worried, thinking I would be cross and I told her that I was very happy to see it there because it meant the cabbage was wholesome- if it had been sprayed the creature would have died or not been able to live in it. When I got home, I took some leaves and put the creature on them and put it out with its leaves in the front under the bushes.

    I can imagine the screams at the supermarket if there were a creature in the vegetables! I remember years back in the 70s my mother would find catterpillars in the lettuces and cabbages and my brothers and I would be happy to see them and put them in our garden. Isn't it sad that natural foods complete with harmless creatures living in them are seen as undesirable? Fruit and veg in supermarkets has to look "perfect"- no leaves, roots and soil on them.Dead.

  • I take a supplement a few times a week and figure it's fine. Sometimes, I'll go months without a supplement so a lab test would be nice sometime. It seems like a B12 supplement is a easy safe thing to me as long as it's not overdone.

    'Gabriel Cousens' used to say B12 supplements weren't needed but he has changed his mind in recent years and now advocates a supplement.

    Best Wishes, Gil.

  • I take B-12 supplements because I haven't got a colon. According to my doctor, B-12 can be stored in the body from 1-4 years depending on the person. I've learned to tell when I'm deficiant (when I've been bad taking my pills) because my memory is the first to go. I went though a phase last year, before I made the connection with my memory, when I was losing everything, forgetting appointments, keys in the fridge, etc. It was so scary and I was freaking out. I thought I was getting Alzheimers (I'm 33). My husband was freaking out too. Luckily I talked to some other people, started taking B-12 again, and things have been better ever since. I don't know how it is for "normal" bodies, but if your memory starts going, that is a big red flag.

  • Hey I was actually right for once LOL.

    Glad you got that tested artist.

    Years ago people could have gotten b12 from drinking water, or from the dirt on the produce since it wasn't washed (or not very good).

    Now everything is polluted, acid rain, etc, a lot of that bacteria is killed.

    I think we need to put our egos aside, and if you need b12 then take it.

    There is no evidence that taking that supplement is bad for our healths, and plenty of evidence to say that it can be lifesaving.

    Maybe people use to eat small insects as well, like that little worm hiding in the apple could have been the best part, who knows, kinda like drinking tequila , and that little bug hiding in the lettuce, would still be there, possible giving a source of b12.

    (now i'm just being silly LOL)

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