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I can't take it anymore (80/10/10)

So, during my years as a raw vegan, I never had much trouble "sticking to it". Never. I always felt great. The only problem was that my acne never totally went away, and I sometimes had dandruff.

I decided that this was I sign I should go even further and I switched to 80/10/10...dietarily (I was never able to maintain the amount of excercise needed). I joined the community recently to make it easier to follow now that I'm overseas.

While, on average, the acne is somewhat better, I have observed that sunlight and lack of stress are a much bigger determining factor for acne reduction for me, much bigger. I have totally cleared my face during time periods where I'm feeling on cloud nine, with no stress, and during the summer. In fact, I have put stress as one of the top things I have to battle. This recession has affected me more than the average american and not having a job in my field is a daily annoyance that I'm trying to beat - it's also a blessing, mind you, as there is always a positive to the negative, and I wouldn't change any of it for the world.

Eating very high fruit, though, I have had devastating hair loss. Actually, it's not so devastating because I am lucky enough to have a LOT of hair - so it's hardly noticeable so far...but seeing first hand how much hair comes out is hard. I also have more dandruff than ever before. When I ate more fats and had a "typical" raw diet, my hair was always beautiful - couldn't be healthier. Now it's thinning.

I have done so much to stop this. I eat about 3600 calories daily and was going to go even higher since people tell me that I'm not getting enough. But there is always something you are "doing wrong". Not getting enough exercise. Not getting my pound of greens daily. Not getting enough sunlight daily (I live in Normandy, France now so it's hard lol). There is always some imperfection with me. They make you feel guilty.

I got a blood test - I'm fine on B12 and the plethora of other things I was tested for...only a little low on vitamin D.

Something just tells me that the reason I am losing hair is more than whatever thing I am doing "wrong". Someone else on that site recently left the lifestyle, after a long time, citing thinner hair over the course of time as an effect. This diet was given me a great respect for TOTAL lifestyle - which I do really really value - it's just hard during the winter in a cold climate. Even then, 80/10/10ers have gotten on me for not "moving to where it's warm". I don't know what to do.

If any diet is the perfect diet, than it would seem that you wouldn't have to perfect it so precisely in order to reap the benefits. I don't agree with eating very very high fat, but as a regular raw foodist, I never did this.

I'm just tired of being made to feel guilty about everything - "you're doing it wrong" - eating isn't supposed to be a science. I feel like I lost my body's instincts. When I was raw and ate a greater variety of foods, not limiting myself, my body called for what it wanted and I obliged - I feel I have lost some of that since the switch. I also have a lot harder time sticking to raw - and since I buy so many fruits and vegetables I can no longer afford organic.

I know I don't do so well on really high fat, but I know of a weight loss doctor that uses a really old asian technique even involving pressure points on the body and breathing to get amazing results form his patients (things specifically for weight loss are not my type of thing, but for those into that it really does work)...he has them eat no oils, as well. A lot of them get severe hair loss, but adding just one tablespoon of flax seed oil along with 2.5g daily of spirulina is known to reverse it in 4 weeks. Maybe even a little oil would help me.

I want your opinions about what I'm describing - not really the hair loss but the guilt and the "you're not doing it right". Am I crazy?

I used to be a very frequent poster on goneraw but left a couple of years back because I felt that I was thinking about food too much - and I was - any diet should become somewhat pedestrian at some point. Maybe now though, I'll come back now to a community that seems to enforce positively and really embrace eachother. I also need to be here to be able to look at some of the recipes at this site - cuz I kind of forgot how to eat regular raw.



  • powerliferpowerlifer Raw Newbie

    I cant chime in for the rest but the hair loss i have some experience of, do you consume adequate iodine, if the soil where you live or produce is coming from is depleted your likely low to deficient on a raw/vegan diet if you aren't consuming seaweeds.

    Seaweeds contain many other nutrients which are great for hair loss such as silica, amino acids and various other trace elements.

    It sounds like your consuming sufficient calories so under-eating isn't an issue, any other symptoms that would relate to low thyroid etc such as feeling cold, fatigue etc.

    Vegan Kingdom

  • powerliferpowerlifer Raw Newbie

    I forgot to say you mentioned flax seed oil in your post if it was a thyroid issue/low iodine that is the cause of your hair loss then id avoid flax as its a potent goitrogen(interferes with iodine uptake) and a strong phyto-estrogen also.


  • I was very thin in that photo, taken years ago, when I first went raw and lost sooo much weight (3 whole years ago). However, I had extremely healthy hair at that time. I was never "anorexic" lol. Now, my weight is very average...you'd never even imply that I look like an anorexic, durianrider - unless you find that you are one as well. I don't know any anorexics that eat 3600 calories daily and eat to their hearts content. Thanks though.

    Thanks a lot powerlifter :). I do intend on beginning to eat seaweed as soon as I finish this water fast, which, almost 48 hours into it, is already a rewarding experience.

  • I'll be sure to update the thread, you all.

  • powerliferpowerlifer Raw Newbie

    Im not a great fan of fasting in general mate, i believe food, herbs etc can take care of any issue that is needing healing.

    Where the hair loss is happening can be a big clue, if it is thinning on top then it could be a lack of iodine/thyroid issue. Where as male pattern baldness can happen due to excess DHT etc which usually occurs around the temples and you see the usual receding. Your picture is old like you say. Zinc is another nutrient which is often hard to get on a raw diet and can cause hair loss. Stretch marks, low libido, white spots on your finger nails are also signs of zinc deficiency. Pumpkin seeds are a good source if you wish to supplement remember to supplement copper as zinc displaces it and can cause problems.

    Wishing you good health:).


  • I think you should go back to your regular raw diet that you had before 8/11. I agree that the 'party line' answers and exclusiveness of some people can wear on you (since you aren't a member of the 'club' of successful tropics fruitarians, it is your fault and you're just doing everything wrong--you don't feel well? I read that you had 1/4th of an avocado two weeks ago; give it a few more years of no fat and you'll be fine....) Zeolites might take care of your acne, as they chelate toxins from the body much quicker than any foods can.

  • First, I think it's impossible to assess somebody's weight based on a picture that shows their head, shoulders and arm. A little self-serving extrapolation for 80-10-10 proponents, hmmm. Second, rapid hair loss may have nothing to do with your diet and may not be permanent. This can be related to stress and be temporary rather than the usual longer term and permanent male pattern baldness. Blood tests can be useful as can be introspection. Have you been under a lot of stress lately? Can you use fitday.com or someother method to see if you are getting RDA for b vitamins which are critical in managing stress?

    Agree with the prior poster to go back to what you were eating before hand and see if it makes a difference. It may not. If you are concerned about permanent long term hair loss, consider your family's genetics (both sides not just mother's). And consider intervention. Minoxidil 5 percent and propecia. They will help you keep what you have if your genetics have other plans.


  • ambiguousambiguous Raw Newbie

    thecavsman - I totally get what you're saying, and the dogmatism of the 8/1/1 crowd turns me off in a big way. I especially hate to see that their answer to any health issue that one of their "followers" experiences is that they're "not doing it right"--whether it's calories, or too much fat, or that time they accidentally ate salt three weeks ago, or whatever. I think you should eat the way you *feel* best, and where you don't experience alarming changes, like significant hair loss. Best of luck finding what's right for you.

  • It could also be the water you are using to wash your hair. Around here it's highly chlorinated and full of other junk. I installed a shower filter and my hair and skin are much nicer. Also might wanna try making sure the water is not too hot on your scalp. And use a really mild shampoo or none at all would be best.

  • I am a member of 30bad. I do think they get a little carried away on that site. I have studied nutrition and am interested in a few things. I eat 80-10-10 but only for the last 3 months. I do not know everything about this diet, so please don't think i am attacking you, but I must know what you eat on a daily basis, even a weekly basis. I see what other people eat on the 30bad site and envy their stomach capacity, I too am stuck at around 3000 calories. I have studied nutrition for the last 2 years. You did say your b vitamins were fine on the blood test. Iodine is something I have balanced with kelp every now and again. (sh! don't tell 30bad ;) When did you notice hair loss? How much do you exercise?

  • RawEverythingRawEverything Raw Newbie

    Here a bit critical on the raw lifestyle but on the end of the article some interesting links maybe it can help you ("However

  • LotusLoverLotusLover Raw Newbie

    Fasting increases absorption. Candida albicans is a likely culprit. 3 day water fast.

  • thecavsman: I so feel for you.. Some vibes in the raw community is so neurotic.. It's more about "doing everything right" than being happy and free. Limitations, judgement, rigidity, and labels to control one self and others.. It's turned into a sect.. Diets are made up by the EGO, and the fanatism in believing that every body is the same = needs the same stupid diet..

    Follow your inner male instinct instead. Don't listen to gurus, they don't know you or your needs. I think the raw community needs to be grounded and connected with reality. The loudest voices are always the ones doing raw "by the book", loving rules, being up in their heads.

    Personally, I don't read books by gurus or follow (die)ts. Because I want to stay clean from the neurosis. I want to have my instincts intact, "raw", not brain-cooked, by some one else's id

  • ajcajc

    Food is not politics nor religion. It is joy!


    Words so true,thanks for posting them,The Raw Dessert


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