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Challenge to ppl thinking anything raw is good

Anyone who believes that eating anything you feel like as long as it is raw should try this experiment. I have done it many times and I know what it does to me. On one day on an empty stomach before doing any exercise eat 1 or 2 whole avocados then wait about 40 – 60 minutes and see what you feel like. Take notes and remember what it felt like. On another day do the same thing but instead of eating avocado eat 1 or 2 heads of romaine lettuce. Don’t exercise before this experiment or eat anything else. See which food makes you feel better. I have a feeling the results will be pretty unanimous.


  • I agree. The first book I read when going raw was Carol Alt’s who says you can eat all you want including desserts. So I was eating raw cookies and candies, and wasn’t feeling great. I never would have eaten sweets everyday when I was vegan, so I don’t know why I think I can do this raw!

    SocaL, I am curious as to what you eat in a typical day.

  • i am curious as well!

    I definitely think that portion control and moderation still play a part in the raw foods diet. too much of anything is never good.

  • Since reading the 80/10/10 Diet book, I have modified my old high fat raw diet to nearly match the one described in the book. I eat tons of fruits mainly bananas and dates and tons of soft digestible greens like romaine, iceberg, butter lettuces with celery. I eat mono meals most of the time for breakfast (e.g. 2 pounds of strawberries) and then a head of lettuce with bananas for lunch. For dinner more bananas or a pineapple with another head or two of lettuce and celery. Most who are on this diet for a while realise that the mixed ingredients, high fats, stimulants such as herbs and spices, onions and garlic cause grave distress on our system. Similar to a crack addict who can take in larger and larger quantities of drugs without feeling the effects, people who continue to pollute their body with these do not feel the effects until they go on a complete withdrawal and clean diet. I used to be able to handle these foods but now I get sick with the slightest amount of them. My philosophy is that if it isn’t healthy to you then why eat it at all, even in moderation. I wouldn’t use drugs in moderation, so why use unhealthy foods.

  • socaL,

    “mixed ingredients, high fats, stimulants such as herbs and spices, onions and garlic”

    are these the “unhealthy foods” you are speaking of? How could such things be bad for you, when garlic has many good properties and benefites, as well as certain spices and herbs. I can understand the food combining issues, but I’m confused other than that!! I do understand that many high fat foods wouldn’t be a good idea..

  • I wrote a lot about this in another thread called “It’s called raw for a reason”. If you do enough research you will see why these are actually damaging the body. I will steer you the right way, these are similar to medicines, do we usually eat medicines in our daily meals? Would you spinkle anti-biotics on your salad? Would you eat a regular daily supply of chemotherapy drugs? All medicines have side effects and apart from the wonderful things they do (kill microbes, kill cancer cells, destroy invaders, etc.) they all do more than what we want them to do and these are often serious and unwanted. Garlic for example kills bacteria in our body. Great, but does garlic know which ones to kill? We need certain ones to be alive in order to be healthy. The body reacts to these herbs and spices as if they are a virus or bacteria, there is mucus created in our body to try to rid us of them as soon as we ingest them. As soon as you eat these your breath will smell. The breath is the first line of defense, it is where the body tries to remove offending inputs first. Oranges smell like orange but after eating one we don’t have orange breath for hours do we? Think about it. Someone from another raw board said he read an article recently that garlic is sent to an area of our taste buds that turpentine is sent to, all the things that are sent to that area of our taste buds are toxic poisons, none are food. If you don’t believe any of this, then try this challenge. Stop eating herbs, spices, onions, garlic and the like for a couple of months. Then one day try to eat a clove of garlic. See how it feels. You will know as I do that it is not a healthy food. Also remember that cooking these spices (which we do not do) destroys many of these toxic chemicals (but also creates others), so reading about the great uses of garlic for cooking is not the same as eating it raw.

  • Socal I’m sure you have done your homework but I have to tell you that you are the first person I have ever heard of who said herbs and spices, onions and garlic cause grave distress on our system. My father is a heart surgeon and has been into Raw food for about 10 years and he is always telling me that garlic is one of the best foods in the world for you.Not to mention the hundreds of reports that say the same thing.

  • Hi rawgirl1976, I’m sure your father knows a lot about medicine and surgery. I have not met a doctor in my life who knows the best foods to eat. That is one of the reasons why the health of our society is so poor. I am not saying that he is wrong but try my suggestion and see how your body acts when you eat garlic after you are clean and have lost the build-up and immunities that ingesting it does over a long period of time. Try giving garlic to a new born baby who is weaned off mother’s milk but has never eaten garlic before (just rub it on his food). I really don’t think he will eat it, then try giving him any kind of raw, ripe sweet fruit…I bet he will eat that! Adults have lost the ability to tell what is healthy for us and what is not, but babies still have the instinct and will reject unhealthy toxic food. If you want to eat these foods then go ahead, but just know they are not health foods and you can’t possibly be in the best possible state of health while you continue to eat them. If you want to eat them as medicines then you probably should be sick before eating them. Try contacting any one of the following health gurus for more information: Frederic Patenaude, Douglas Graham, Nora Lenz, David Klein, Gabriel Cousins, Roger Haeske. They all are reachable by email and will reply to a legitimate request to understand why these are unhealthy. The best answer however will come from your own experience and body, if you actually feel great after eating these once you are totally clean then you should consider them as health foods.

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    For other opinions and studies on garlic have a look at this rather interesting site: http://www.garlic.mistral.co.uk/

    Amongst other things, it mentions that the Ancient Egyptians worshipped garlic!

    As I mentioned on a different discussion, neither me or my husband get bad breath from garlic. I wonder if this is coz we are 100% Because before, when we were unwittingly eating non raw things,we did get garlic breath.

  • Mustard oil (or oil of mustard) is a component of garlic, onions and several other ‘spices’, it is a toxic poison. Here is a description of it: Mustard Oil

    Mustard oil (allyl-isothiocyanate) is the spicy active ingredient in mustard flour and is also contained in leeks and garlic


    This is from this link: http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v7/n5/full/nr…

    Mustard, garlic and chilli peppers all contain components that stimulate nociceptors, triggering pain, inflammation and hypersensitivity. These molecules target TRP receptors — a family of excitatory cation channels — and identifying the specific receptors for individual molecules could help to elucidate the mechanisms that underlie nociception and how pain is sensed. Writing in Cell, Bautista and colleagues report that TRPA1 is the sole receptor of the noxious components of mustard oil and garlic, and also link this receptor with inflammatory responses to environmental toxins.

  • JoescJoesc Raw Master

    Hot Pepper Ingredient Kills Prostate Cancer Cells Capsaicin, the pungent alkaloid in jalapeños and other chile peppers that makes them hot, not only puckers the mouth and burns the tongue but also drives prostate cancer cells to kill themselves off, according to studies published in the March 15 issue of Cancer Research.

    According to a team of researchers from the Samuel Oschin Comprehensive Cancer Institute at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, in collaboration with colleagues from UCLA, the pepper component caused human prostate cancer cells to undergo programmed cell death or apoptosis.

    Capsaicin induced approximately 80 percent of prostate cancer cells growing in mice to follow the molecular pathways leading to apoptosis. Prostate cancer tumors treated with capsaicin were about one-fifth the size of tumors in non-treated mice.

    “Capsaicin had a profound anti-proliferative effect on human prostate cancer cells in culture,” said Sören Lehmann, M.D., Ph.D., visiting scientist at the Cedars-Sinai Medical Center and the UCLA School of Medicine. “It also dramatically slowed the development of prostate tumors formed by those human cell lines grown in mouse models.”

    Lehmann estimated that the dose of pepper extract fed orally to the mice was equivalent to giving 400 milligrams of capsaicin three times a week to a 200 pound man, roughly equivalent to between three and eight fresh habañera peppers – depending on the pepper’s capsaicin content. Habañeras are the highest rated pepper for capsaicin content according to the Scoville heat index. Habañera peppers, which are native to the Yucatan, typically contain up to 300,000 Scoville units.

    The more popular Jalapeño variety from Oaxaca, Mexico, and the southwest United States, contains 2,500 to 5,000 Scoville units. As described in their study, the scientists observed that capsaicin inhibited the activity of NF-kappa Beta, a molecular mechanism that participates in the pathways leading to apoptosis in many cell types.

    Apoptosis is a normal cellular event in many tissues that maintains a balance between newer replacement cells and aged or worn cells. In contrast, cancer cells seek to be immortal and often dodge apoptosis by mutating or deregulating the genes that participate in programmed cell death.

    “When we noticed that capsaicin affected NF-kappa Beta, that was an indication that we might expect some of the apoptotic proteins to be affected,” said the study’s senior author, Phillip Koeffler, M.D., director of Hematology and Oncology, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, and professor at UCLA.

    The pepper extract also curbed the growth of prostate cancer cells through regulation of androgen receptors, the steroid activated proteins that control expression of specific growth relating genes.

    In prostate cancer cells whose growth is dependent on testosterone, the predominant male sex steroid, capsaicin reduced cell proliferation in a dose-dependent manner. Increased concentrations of capsaicin caused more prostate cancer cells to freeze in a non-proliferative state, called G0/G1.

    Prostate cancer cells that are androgen independent reacted to capsaicin in a similar manner. Capsaicin reduced the amount of androgen receptor that the tumor cells produced, but did not interfere with normal movement of androgen receptor into the nucleus of the cancer cells where the steroid receptor acts to regulate androgen target genes such as prostate specific antigen (PSA). Capsaicin also interfered with the action of androgen receptors even in cells that were modified to produce excess numbers of androgen receptors.

    The hot pepper component also reduced cancer cell production of PSA, a protein that often is produced in high quantities by prostate tumors and can signal the presence of prostate cancer in men. PSA content in the blood of men is used as a diagnostic prostate cancer screening measure. PSA is regulated by androgens, and capsaicin limited androgen-induced increases of PSA in the cancer cell lines.

    More men in the United States develop prostate cancer than any other type of malignancy. Every year, more than 232,000 new cases of prostate cancer are diagnosed in the U.S., and more than 680,000 develop the disease worldwide. Approximately 30,000 men die from prostate cancer in the U.S. each year, which is about 13 percent of all new cases. Worldwide, there are 221,000 deaths – approximately 31 per cent – among men with prostate cancer.

    Read the abstract for this study here: Capsaicin, a Component of Red Peppers, Inhibits the Growth of Androgen-Independent, p53 Mutant Prostate Cancer Cells. Lehman did the experiments in Koeffler’s laboratory in collaboration with UCLA cancer researchers Akio Mori, James O’Kelly, Takishi Kumagai, Julian Desmond, Milena Pervan, and William McBride. Mosahiro Kizaki, a former post-doctoral fellow in Koeffler’s laboratory who initiated the capsaicin studies, is currently at the Keio University School of Medicine, Tokyo, Japan.

  • JoescJoesc Raw Master


    Too much of a good thing is always bad but spices and herbs are good for the body. It is best to take it in moderations. Also Zoe, Rawgirl and mango women you’re speaking on deaf ears. Post the information so others that truly don’t know get the information. He has already gotten this information before. I won’t say any more on the topic because I posted all that needs to be addressed before.

  • Great posts! None however say that these are not toxic. You prove my point again as almost every one of those posts indicate that these spices kill something (cancer cells, bacteria, etc.) things that kill are toxic. End of story.

  • Socal, I’m really intrigued by eating simpler (like the 80/10/10)- do you know where I can find more info? It might be hard for me to get a copy of the book- it’s not in any major stores…

  • Where do you live? If you go to Doug’s web site:

    80-10-10 Book

    you can order it there. It took only a few days to get it here (Southern California).

    To continue on the preceding – The definition of toxin is: “n. A poisonous substance, especially a protein, that is produced by living cells or organisms and is capable of causing disease when introduced into the body tissues but is often also capable of inducing neutralizing antibodies or antitoxins.”

    This is exactly what spices, onions and garlic do when they are introduced to the body. The body attempts to neutralize them with antibodies or antitoxins such as mucous and other bodily fluids and antitoxins.

  • I’m in Canada…so with the shipping- it’s almost $45. Are there any websites that you know of that give more detail?

  • I think I paid about $37 US for the book including shipping. If the $45 you quote is in Canadian dollars then it is about the same, if it is US dollars then the difference is only $8 – in my opinion a very low amount to get the information in the book. Is your health not worth $8?

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