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  • TomsMomTomsMom Raw Newbie

    As a woman who was raised by a Catholic parent and a Jewish parent(omg, I know hahaha), I have to say there is no reason for Christians to feel hurt by adverse reactions to the OP. The OP was thoroughly obnoxious, aggressive and out of place. If a Muslim poster had posted something like that, every American member would have been shrieking for blood. People being upset has nothing to do with being anti-Christian. I promise I’m not angry and not trying to be cruel or mean. OOOXXX

  • RawVoiceRawVoice Raw Newbie

    I posted the same link about a week ago without the hell and damnation. I don’t believe in hell. frm, I think the fearful religious talk makes the concerns of genetically modified foods less credible. In fact, people may be less likely to avoid gmo’s simply because they don’t want to be influenced by your condemnation-based beliefs.

  • rawpatiencerawpatience Raw Newbie

    Freedom of speech…cool, fear-driven anything…not cool. it plays to humankind’s deepest vulnerabilities…very weak approach, yet very effective for some…just look at bush. okay, sorry for transgressing into politics. in the end, this is an on-line “community” and i don’t know about you, but in my neighborhood it’s a mixed bag and i’d have it no other way. how boring if we all believed and felt the same way as everybody else. just my opinion.

  • We all of course have freedom of speech. I and you can say anything that they want. The thing is that everything you say (and do) has consequences. The consequence when I see someone else make a bigoted, homophobic, untolerant, sexist, speciest etc. comment is that I may yell at them, or use my freedom to express why they are wrong. I really can’t stand the “live and let live” attitude many liberals have today. There is wrong and there is right, regardless of what religion or lack of religion that you are. We need to make decisions about what it wrong and right based upon reality, not fear based mysticism.

  • rawmamarawmama Raw Newbie

    Had a chance to watch the video from your link tonight and it was a very interesting testimonial. The speaker was very genuine, I was fully expecting someone that would be radical and hysterical, but he was totally the opposite :) ...I found it very inspiring and gave me a lot to think about, especially since life can be so short. Thank you for sharing.

  • MeditatingMeditating Raw Newbie

    I wish I could say I am surprised to see people are not offended vy the initia post. Some were. The question was raised why that is. What I find most unacceptable about that post is the lord jesus taking people off to hell where they will be tormented for eternity without escape and other people. christians, get to go to heaven. Everyone knows the big picture, which is that some people go to hell (non-christians, aka bad, sinful people, etc.) and then the good guys (christians) get to go to heaven.

    This kind of statement is an pronouncement of self righteousness and and act of hostility toward others. First, it identifies a group of people (those who believe these type of statments – christians), as deserving of the reward of eternal happiness and joy, contrasted against people who are not like them (non-christians) and who are deserving of eternal suffering and torture. The people who earned this horrible treatment aren’t like the writer, so in that respect the writer and those in agreement are superior. Now, I am talking about the big picture and not semantics. I am sure many christians would say “we don’t believe we are superior,” but if getting to go to heaven instead of hell isn’t a superior deal then I don’t know what is. So far, you have a group identifying themselves in a superior state and then pronouncing the demise of those who aren’t like them. To top it off, the statement is the will of god. And that is all that is required for the predicate mindset of all religious hatred and wars. It allow one group, based on their religious beliefs, to presume another group deserving of something most horrible and these beliefs being affirmed by their god.

    I know that most people in the US, where I am from, identify themselves as christians. I was raised as a christian and I understand that it is a no-no to question religious teachings or at least you can’t question them and find an answer that is contrary to the teachings. However, if you look at this same pattern of discourse without inserting your particular religious beliefs, you can easily see the problem.

    “The day is coming when the lord’s desire will be fulfilled and the jews will again be rightfully gassed to death and tossed aside to resume their place as garbage forever and we shall rejoice.” “Praise be the lord when all black men, women, and children, will be placed upon a ship and their chained, naked bodies dropped to the ocean’s floor where they will rot forever, for it is your will and we pray your will be done.” These two offensive statements accomplish exactly what the initial post did here: 1) They identify two groups (jewjs/non-jews; blacks/non-blacks); 2) they identify one as deserving and one as damned to an unspeakable end; 3) the writer is presumed to not be part of the damned group due to the nature of the statement; and 4) these pronouncements have the blessing of a god and are therefore deemed justified by the writer. God has laid claim to their destructive end so what could make it more deserving? Did you think the writer of the first statement was a Jew? Did you believe the person who wrote the second statement must have been black? I posted the two statements because most people who identify with a religious belief will never see the hypocracy of statements made in the name of their religion. Since these statements do not comply with any specific teachings (that I know of), run contrary to what is acceptable in modern society, and remind us of the horrors that rise from this type of thought, the point should be obvious. If the original post was either of the two offensive statements I posted herein, I think everyone would have seen the problem right away.

    Second, inserting religion in a way other than to briefly impart good will is disrespectful of others. The problem is people never realize that their message might be offensive to another until confronted with a religious message they find offensive. Even then, they usually realize the message was offensive to them but don’t make the connection that their messages may be offensive to others in the exact same way. This is because we believe that what is done in the name of our particular religious belief is aways acceptable and just. That is the notion of religious superiority. That is the danger of religion. I don’t think these things are the same as spiritual beliefs, which have no us, thems or condemnations.

    I don’t take offens to someone saying bless you, have a blessed day, and things like that because they intend good will and are not prosletizing. However, if I were an avowed satanist and wanted to insert in my posts or end them with a polite incantation of the devil, I think most people here would be offended and want it to stop. How do you know what is offensive to others? We all tend to assume other people believe the same things we do. In America, where so many people identify themselves as christians, we assume anything christian is not offensive. The unique problem in christianity is that people are taught to prosletize. I went to both catholic and baptist churches and prosletizing, or witnessing, was a requirement. This made me believe that my actiosn to intrude on other people’s spiritual beliefs was necessary to seve god’s will. Many people learn this and never question it, which also accounts for why so many christians believe they are justified in “offering” their faith on others so they can save them.

    People can choose to respect others as they would want to be respected. This is why I posted earlier that I don’t see this any different than someone walking up to me and questioning me about my sex life. And for those who think it is entirely a freedom of speech issue, yes people should be free to speak their minds. I enjoying discussing spiritual beliefs, but there is a place and time for everything and being polite and respectful of others doesn’t mean your speech has been abrogated. Most people have the opportunity to say hurtful or offensive things but don’t because they are mindful of the ramifications. I wish people would learn to respect others and not impose their reigious beliefs when it wasn’t requested or appropriate. I also wish those who see and hear it happening would realize the problem and speak up.

  • So eloquently and well stated Meditating, not to mention so true! Bravo!!

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