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help needed: tried everything

bittbitt Raw Newbie

I am just curious what people think because I have tried EVERYTHING for back pain in the western and non-western medicine realm. acupuncture, chiropracture, herbs, ultrasound, physical therapy, cold/hot therapy, massage, trigger point injections, several medications, cortizone shots, cranial sacral therapy, tens machine, ice, heat, hot water, spas, lidocaine patches and there’s probably a few more things i am forgetting. anyhow, the only thing that seems to help are these treatments where they cut or “ablate” my nerves so i don’t feel the pain. my last resort was going raw and guess what, it did not work, the pain is coming back (the nerves grow back after a few months). now it does not mean i will quit raw because it has helped me in many other ways. but i feel like i am at my last straw. someone recommended seeing a psychic. that is where i am right now.

i eat tons of the right raw foods. lots of greens. i suppose i could up my wheatgrass intake and juice intake. i could get a colonic. but honestly it is so tough to believe that one more thing is going to be the magic trick when all else has failed.



  • elizabethhelizabethh Raw Newbie

    i have no helpful advice unfortunately, but i just wanted to wish you the best of luck!

  • Hi Bitt – back pain is the worst – affects everything you do. I found that losing weight fixed my back problems. I don’t know if that’s a factor for you but thought I would mention it.

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    Find yourself a good Rebirther (Rebirthing-Breathwork facilitator). If you want, tell me where you live and I can recommend someone in your area. You will need more than one session for the back pain you describe. I’d suggest that you book in for 10 and guess that you will beat it around half way through the 10. I guarantee it will work! I’ve never seen it take all 10 sessions to cure severe body traumas, but after the trauma goes the Bliss comes and that’s is the best part.

    Bikram Yoga will probably do it too, but it will take months instead of weeks. I would also recommend the book “Ageless Body, Timeless Mind” by Deepak Chopra.

    Pain Free living is an option for you also.

    Lovebows, Chris

  • bittbitt Raw Newbie

    thank you chris. i live in seattle. i will look as well.

    karuna, i am not very overweight but i am losing some. i don’t know how much of a factor 10 pounds will be. everything helps i suppose.

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    Hey bitt,

    I don’t know how close he is to you (Anacortes, WA) but Seth Bartlet is very, very good. His number is (360) 299-9479 and won’t mind me posting it here. I also know several other good Rebirthers in Oregon and Northern California if you need them.

    My original Trainer Susan (Yasoda) Deschenes is in Arcata (Humboldt county) northern California and she is surely worth the trip. Amazing, changed my life forever.

    Can’t wait to hear from you after you are pain free!

    Lovebows, Chris

  • Hi bitt,

    I would actually take a different approach. Have you ever heard of the theory that illness or pains are the bodies way of saying there’s something wrong with your soul/inside life?

    From other threads I know that you have been (or still are?) taking medication. So my theory would be that your body is showing you through your back pain that it is hurting on the INSIDE. Do you know what I mean?

    Now, I don’t know you, so I can’t tell you what that is. Maybe there is something still haunting you from your past? Or even nowadays? Maybe you are suppressing whatever it is and therefore it manifests into your back pain? (After all, that “hurting” that energy has to go somewhere.)

    I’m not saying you should go see a psychologist, no! I’m saying that you should go inside yourself and look for it, find it, look at it and see what it is! The next step would be accepting it, accepting that it’s there and that it makes you feel the way you feel. After that, make friends with it. Only then will it go away.

    I hope this didn’t sound to weird! I know from my own experiences that it works. Get well soon! :)

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    Hey Sonnenhut,

    You don’t sound weird at all. These points you’ve brought are one (if not the) reason why Rebirthing-Breathwork gets results. The experience allows you to let go of past trauma mentally and emotionally. There is no real physical problem with old body problems. How can there be when 98% of our body is less than a year old and most of our body is less than 4 months old. Even our entire skeleton is only 3 months old. Rebirthing allows one to release these things without having to think through it at all. This is nice when you have spent years worrying about something and you got a lot of mental baggage wrapped up in it.

    Lovebows, Chris

  • carrie6292carrie6292 Raw Newbie

    Hey Chris – this sounds very interesting to me. I live near Syracuse, NY… any suggestion? I’ve been looking for a natural health care provider – someone who doesn’t think i’m clinically insane for leading the raw lifestyle that i lead… I’ve been doing my own Yoga but wanting to take a great yoga class… this rebirthing sounds so interesting and worthwhile! Do you have a site where i can read more about it? Thanks!!

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    Hey carrie,

    Happy to help. Within minutes of finishing my first session I wanted to tell the world and I have been ever since. I also soon afterwards trained to be a facilitator and giving sessions especially to ‘virgins’ is possibly my favorite thing to do in life. I love the knowing look I get from someone after their first session when there are no words and yet we both understand. The experience is truly impossible to describe.

    Most who have done many different types of spiritual work say it is the most powerful and life changing ‘therapy’ they have ever experienced. It is also often said that it is something that delivers even more than is promised. One of my favorite things to say about it is that… It allows you to meet the person you were before anyone added anything.

    Problem: Since it original popularity in the early 70’s there gave been many other therapies that have adopted the name Rebirthing and so now practitioners of the original methods of Leonard Orr mostly now use the term Rebirthing-Breathwork. If you speak to anyone who says they have tried Rebirthing and doesn’t have the same type OTT things to say about it, normally you will find that they have not had the original and instead have had one of these ‘watered down’ or completely different methods calling itself Rebirthing.

    A Rebirthing-Breathwork session is just that, Breathing and nothing else but Breathing. RB sessions are done 1 on 1 until the method is learned and then can be done alone. Versions of the original include: Group sessions, Role play, Attachent Therapy, Holotropic Breathwork, Talking during the session, and many others variations.

    Zoe and I plan to make Raw Food, Rebirthing and Yoga the main focus of our future centre. These 3 things are truly Heaven on Earth when all are practiced by anyone. They fit together and compliment each other so well. RB also includes learning a few separate Spiritual practices outside of the breath sessions that incorporate elements of Spirit, other than Air. These deal with Earth, Water, Fire, Mind etc. They are all simple and wonderful. Quite a few RB’ers are also Raw Foodists.

    For your own research start with Wikipedia and Leonard’s site. Also do a little Googleing and get some random input from a few different sources. Make sure that you seek out an original RB practitioner at some point even if you are drawn to try one of the ‘versions’ also. I would try RB first so that you aren’t tainted by these other methods.

    Here are some links…

    The Wiki information is mostly historically accurate yet it fails to sum up the philosophy very well. It has improved a lot since it original article which did not even distinguish between RB and the other variations.

    Leonard’s site is OK, not great either. Leonard does not focus on presentation and prefers info to spread organically. This is the reason he has never copyrighted or licensed his methods, which is of course what has led to all the variations.

    Ignore the YouTube video on the first page of Goggle which shows a man breathing with his eyes wide open, inhaling by nose, exhaling by mouth. This nose & mouth breathing is great for yoga but not for RB.

    Here are some other good links…

    Enjoy your research! or don’t bother and just dive right in. In your area I would contact Peace Arnold (917) 579-1449 or RebirthingNYC@gmail.com . Although right now she is in Virginia at RBI you can reach her there by calling (540) 885-0551. You can also reach Leonard at this number.

    Lovebows, Chris

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    Thought I’d add my tuppence worth here! Body issues reflect thinking patterns. This is from Louise Hay “You can heal your life”

    Lower back pain – Fear of money,lack of financial support – Affirm I trust the process of life. All i need is always taken care of, I am safe.

    Middle Back pain – Guilt. Stick in all that stuff back there. “Get off my back.” – Affirm I release the past. I am free to move forward with love in my heart.

    Upper back pain – Lack of emotional support. Feeling unloved. Holding Back Love. Affirm I love and approve of myself. Life supports and loves me.

    Say the affirmation 100’s of times a day. Write it down, stick it on your fridge! Wash your brain with it.

    Hope that helps.

  • Hmm, I have had several big, yet different, emotional traumas in my life, starting with the passing of my mom when I was three. I wonder if this would help? I will definitley look into it. Thanks for all the info guys!

  • angie207angie207 Raw Newbie

    I love Louise Hay’s book! It has helped me to let go of or “cure” several problems, and to be aware of my thoughts/feelings/mental patterns much more quickly. I believe that everything was created spiritually before it was created physically.

  • WinonaWinona Raw Newbie

    Zoe – I love these affirmations! I can’t wait to repeat that – i’ll start today. Something needs to overcome the negative self talk. I’m going through lots of changes (moving, taking college classes, preparing to buy land for permaculture) and it’s easy to let the fear take over. Instead, I will try those affirmations. I also love the cafe gratitude affirmations I am Grateful-I am Peaceful-I am Compassionate-I am Golden-I am Fiery-I am Dazzling

  • angie207angie207 Raw Newbie

    Winona – You ARE dazzling :)

  • WinonaWinona Raw Newbie

    Thanks ang! You are fiery. Woooohooo!

  • bittbitt Raw Newbie

    Well it’s been better. I am going through some grief feelings that I have began to let out in the last few years but before that had not processed them. Sometimes when you lose someone slowly due to them becoming less of who they are due to dementia or old age you forget to grieve for that loss. I know I have to stop pushing my grief away and deal with it. So, it makes sense for me that I have to middle back pain. Rawmamma can you relate?

    Thanks for all these ideas. It means a lot.

  • angie207angie207 Raw Newbie

    bitt – I can totally relate! I have been working through some emotional issues of being afraid/unwilling to grieve over things that happen gradually, or I thought that because I still had to live & go to work, etc. that it wasn’t okay for me to grieve, or if it was something that someone else wouldn’t be sad about then I couldn’t feel it – crazy place I put myself in! A few years ago I healed emotionally my unwillingness to move forward in life, and suddenly I could jog, walk downstairs, etc. without my knees creaking & killing me with pain (when I was in high school, my kneecaps would randomly pop off to the side of my knee when I was standing, I had to be carried back from a hike at a girls’ camp, etc.). Now, if I ever get a twinge of that old pain, I trace my thought patterns and realize it has happened right as I start hesitating in my thoughts of moving forward in something. As soon as I really change my attitude, the pain goes away again. Amazing!

  • My suggestion as a former LMT is to maintain whatever treatment you’re using once a week for several months. If you’ve been doing that regularly and still have pain, be concious of repetitive movements and habits that would lead to localized back pain. (ex. carrying a purse on the same shoulder, hunching over the computer like I’m doing right now.) When you see things, start changing that behavior and see if it helps. Beyond that, I’m a big fan of stretching every morning, meditating, and drinking water to help release muscles.

  • carrie6292carrie6292 Raw Newbie


    Thank you so much! This is something that i am definitely interested in doing! I attended a Spiritual Healing class where all we did was sit around in a circle (there were about 6 other people) with our eyes closed and it was just amazing what actually happens… I believe the class is based on David Pearl’s book – using the first dimention to chanel energy (i believe). I haven’t done much research on it myself, but i’ve experienced it and it was amazing and you just feel so enlightened after the class. Thanks for suggesting the Rebirthing! I will email the contact in NYC and see if she can recommend anyone closer to me (I’m about 4 hours from NYC). Thanks so much!

    Zoe, thanks for the equations on back pain – very helpful!

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    I would also recommend the book “Breaking The Death Habit” by Leonard Orr. He has written 24+ books that have been translated into 12 different languages. IMHO this one is his best. If you want the Knots Landing version of the Rebirthing story, find an old copy of “Rebirthing In The New Age” By Leonard Orr and Sondra Ray. You’ll be transported back to California in the early 70’s. It is no longer in print yet it is available here and there online. (amazon)

    Lovebows, Chris

  • clr-1976clr-1976 Raw Newbie


    Rebirthing sounds amazing. I hand on to far too much old stuff and it interferes with all relationships in all aspects of my life. I’m always scared of old and uhappy things happening again. Can you recommend anyone in the Buckinghamshire area? I work in London so anyone there as a second choice would be great too..


  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    I’d just like to second Chris’s post about rebirthing. He introduced it to me a few days after we met! Wowee! It blew my socks off. Since then I have been on a 9 day training with Leonard Orr who invented/rediscovered it, and I rebirth myself in the bath almost every day. I can’t begin to tell you what it has done for me. It is like, no matter what is going on, or what mood I am in, I can go to the bathroom and breathe and be taken into total bliss. The physical feeling is like having an all over body orgasm! Imagine your foot and your leg having an orgasm!! And I feel the happiest that I can be. So i have been doing rebirthing since I went raw, I am sure this has contributed to how easy and pleasurable going raw has been for me.

    CIR-1976 – There is a brilliant woman in London who is raw and an excellent rebirther. Her name is Sheelagh Bissett 020 7263 5920 or 07986-697-819. She is hosting a 9 day training with Leonard in September which will be well worth going to as it will change your life.

  • I have found various forms of energy psychology practice to be amazing and wonderful in my life! I began with Emotional Freedom Technique EFT, which is FREE (www.emofree.com). Then I added Quantum Techniques (www.quantumtechniques.com), which I’ve been doing for just over a year. I’ve cured my allergies and many other issues. Recently, I’ve added TAT (www.tatlife.net) to my tool kit. It is amazing and also free. All of these techniques, and many others, can be done at home either by yourself or on the phone with a therapist to guide you, or in person with a therapist to guide you. It all depends on your preference. There are many, many other variants of energy psychology and I’ll bet that they are quite wonderful, though I have no direct experience of them.

    Going along with Louise Hay, energy psychology is premised on the belief that our bodies are expressing truths that our conscious minds cannot. When you release the emotional baggage, your body can and will heal itself. The differences between energy psychology and traditional western psychology is that these techniques do not require you to relive your traumas or work thru them. You release the hold that the conscious or unconscious memories have over you without erasing the event itself, and then you can heal.

    Overall, I’d say there is a whole realm of healing available that requires only a paradigm shift from purely physical causes of pain or disfunction to emotional causes of these things. Like you, I’d tried a myriad of methods to cure my physical issues. As my QT therapist recently mentioned, those things are all valid and effective methods for assisting in physical cures once the mind is ready to allow the body to heal.

    If you are an avid reader, you may want to check out “The Biology of Belief” by Bruce Lipton. This book explains quite a lot about the universe!!! It helped me to understand why EFT and QT and TAT have worked for me and will work for so many people.

    PS. Not only can you cure your physical problems, but I have found that my life has transformed from a state of fear and protection to a state of love and freedom. My entire world view has shifted quite dramatically and I no longer “suffer” as my normal state of being. Now I live in a state of gratitude and empathy and feel much more Zen, if that makes sense.

    Blessings to you on your journey!

  • rawpatiencerawpatience Raw Newbie

    Bitt: A book that changed my life and healed my back pain is by John E. Sarno: and is called The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain. Warner Books. ISBN 0-446-67515-6. The theory of chronic pain (especially back pain) that Dr. Sarno describes is definitely based on psychology and is called Tension Myositis Syndrome (TMS). It is a syndrome not usually (if at all) acknowledged by typical Western doctors as the very thought of a psychologically based pain syndrome goes against all of their training and in fact threatens their livelihood. Anyways, Dr. Sarno and his colleagues have done a ton of research backed with loads of success stories. He has devised a form of psychological healing that really makes sense and is without drugs. My good friend who had chronic back pain and extensive back surgery only found relief much later after being diagnosed with TMS. She is a new person now. I wish you well!

  • newbienewbie Raw Newbie

    Chris – I searched the rebirthing directory listed on Orr’s training site and found the following three practitioners that are not too, too far from me: Beverly K. Joyce, Melantha Cleveland, and Nannette Morrison. Can you recommend any of them?

    thanks :-)

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    Hey newbie,

    You are close enough to get it straight from the horses mouth. Leonard is in Staunton and the RBI training center is in Waynesboro! Are you on the other side of Charlottesville? Where are you? Zoe and I will be moving to the area in a few months. We will have to get together!

    I’d suggest contacting Peace Arnold. She is very good and usually in NY! She is working between Leonard’s Home and The RBI training center. You can reach her at the RBI number (540) 885-0551. Also if you act fast my dear friend Michael from Australia is in town for a month or so and you could have a few sessions with him. Michael is a rare, rare find. Peace will know how to reach him while he’s in town.

    Lovebows, Chris

  • newbienewbie Raw Newbie

    Thanks, Chris. I’m closer to Richmond and approx 1 hr 40 mins from Staunton. I’d like to get it from the source, but that would be nearly 3.5 hrs round-trip. Considering that it might be 10 sessions, it adds up. That’s why I was considering those located near Charlottesville as it would be 40 mins. I’ll have to give it some thought though, bc I think it would be worth it. Problem is figuring out how to fit it into my schedule (the drive, session, and drive back).

    Good luck with your move. I hope everything goes smoothly and Tonk does well on the flight. Been there, done that :-)

  • chriscarltonchriscarlton Raw Newbie

    No one acutally does sessions in Staunton, normally in Waynesboro or Afton. Check with Peace, Her or Michael may meet you in Charlottesville, Michael may come to Richmond. My sister lives in Richmond. Thanks for thinking of Tonka, He of course is flying first class and Zoe and I will ride in the cargo hold. LOL

    I wish! Lovebows, Chris

  • lzhptlzhpt Raw Newbie

    I’m always disappointed when i hear someone say they’ve tried Physial Therapy and it didn’t work. Every PT comes to you with different skills depending on where they have focused their post graduate work and where their specialty is. Cranio-sacral does not work for everyone. I use a combination of Muscle Energy Technique, Strain/Counterstrain, Pilates and GYROTONIC. This combination gived my patients the tools to heal themselves. Muscle Energy—soft manipulations using the patients muscles to correct malallignment, Strain/Counterstrain to turn off overactive muscle spindles and correct muscle imbalances, Pilates for Core strength, GYROTONIC and Yoga to correct the movement dysfunction that likely caused the pain to begin with. GYRO. is based on spiraling movements and opening each yoga chakra. Check out GYROTONIC.com and watch a video. You can also find a certified GYRO. instructor in your area. You will find the menu that’s right for you, but I can tell you if you don’t correct the movement dysfunction that brought you to this painful state, every other therapy will only be temporary. I’m all for including energy work (Cranio-sacral, Reiki or Re-birthing) in that menu along with your essential raw foods. The nightshade group of foods—tomatoes, peppers, eggplant though raw, can cause inflammation for many sensitive people. Try eliminating this group of foods for 4 days and then introducing a nightshade monomeal first thing in the morning. Document any changes in pain level.

  • newbienewbie Raw Newbie

    Chris – Peace recommended the following people: Nancy and Geoffrey Orr, and Joyce Hodges (they’re closer to my location). Do you recommend any of these? Thanks

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