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hmm, I think I disagree. Mostly because there have been far worse times in the past. There are always ups and downs and although I’m pretty sure this down will last a while I’m confident that it’ll come back up again.
But I will say, it pays to be young and not rich. I don’t have invested money(or lack there of:)) and I live economically. So I don’t feel the bad market at the moment and the only thing that has affected me(minimally) are gas and food prices.
oh I might mention that I’m not educated in the world’s economy so I may be way off. But those are just my thoughts:)
It is scary. I used to work for an airline in the UK called Excel and they’ve just gone bust (They rebranded and are now known as XL).
It makes me wonder what’s next with the now collapse of Lehman too.
There are 1700 people out of work as a result of XL. I understand how hard it is for people who have lost money on holidays and have been stranded, I really do.
My heart goes out more to those who have lost their jobs, dont know where the next mortgage/rent/bill payment is going to come from tho. I got a text from one of my freinds, he said he’s got to try to claim his last 2 weeks wages back from the government. They have nothing.
I know they did what they could in desparation to try to get money upto the last minute and the MD was in tears at the press conference.
Aparently the administrators came in at 11pm and said it was time to give up the ghost so everything was grounded at 1pm. They even brought back an aircraft that was about to head off down the runway.
A friend of mine and her fiance both worked there. I dont know what to say to them. Its awful.
I know that’s only a tiny peice of the pie though.
What happens if there is a global collapse? I have no idea?
Just saw your reply t’s just a b.
I dont really know either. I was flying when the twin towers were attacked and that hit the airline industry hard here. My other half lost his job & we were praying I wouldnt lose mine. Thankfully I didnt, but mine wasnt enought even to make the mortgage.
I dont know if this is worse or not but the fact zoom & XL have gone lately suggests to me that it might be worse, but I’m only guessing.
thats just the aviation industry too. The only bit I know a little about..
Yeah, the aviation industry and now the automobile industry. Ford plants here have been closing down since sales for gas gusslers(trucks and SUVs) has dropped. 49,000 people were left without jobs after they were done. It’s scary but I kind of think it’s just what we need to realize the waste. At least here in the US we are extremely wasteful and rather lazy. We’re a fat country and we don’t like biking(we’ll literally drive 1/4 mile to get somewhere) we like big cars and bigger houses and anything in excess. Now’s the time for us to finally “get it”. I think it’s a good thing even though it REALLY sucks when the gas gets high and the food gets high and people are laid off. It’s time for us to reevaluate.
I think we are in serious trouble. I also think there will be great shifts in world powers. We’ll see China emerge as one of the greatest economical and military force. Maybe in the next 30 years.
Reneschwartz – and what do You think?
ikn – my husband used to work as an IT contractor for the US Military working to combat cyber terrorism. He said many times that the Middle East is not our greatest threat, but China. Our war in Iraq has been soley and most eagerly financed by China. I’m not an expert in this kind of stuff so I won’t say much more. My husband was privy to a lot of imformation that he couldn’t dicuss with me, especially with all the security clearences he went through…even I got a background check…but that’s besides the point…
“keep your friends close and your enemies closer” did not originate from the ‘Godfather’. It was from the Chinese military general, Sun Tzu….my husband has a transaltion of his famous book ‘The Art of War’. Facinating and frightening stuff…
yeah, China is definitely scary and it’s weird to know they finance our war.
During the Olympics I was rather stunned to see alot of the things I saw. Rather coincidentally I gained an office mate from Beijing the week before the Olympics and was somewhat appalled at the majority of what he told me.
Dear IKN, please bear with me a moment as I am going to read fairy tales to my daughter.
Although on a positive note, one of my yoga teachers went on a 3 week rock climbing trip to China this summer and had great things to say about her travels and the Chinese people.
oh the people are wonderful! It’s the oppressive government there that is sad. So many natural rights are violated.
JoyceH, yes I agree. I have Chineese aquaintances and they are wonderful people. Also if we look back in history we see all the great inventions they had hundreds of years before the West. They had and still have an amazing culture! Their philosophy like Taoism or Fung Shui are very close to me.
It’s just that the US is used to being the number ONE in the world and I see that change is coming. I don’t know if it’s going to be good or bad. But empires have been emerging and falling throughout history. I guess this is one of those transition times.
More troubles ahead, the “fun” has just begun! Let’s face it we live in a fantasy world, meaning all we have and do (as a society) is based on credit, this can no longer last in my viewpoint, there will be a reality check sooner or later. I was reading sometime ago an article stating that the average Canadian household doubled its debt over the past decade, for how long can we keep using our c/c as nations and as individuals to maintain our rich and over materialistic way of life? Let’s hope I am wrong!
well, I think that we are going to see a series of collapses of big business over the next few years. Our entire capitalist model of not taking into account the “externalities” of social and environmental impacts from business practices will be changing. Lots of large corporations are embracing the Triple Bottom Line: growth of profit, society, and the environment.
That said, small businesses have taken a huge hit this year! I used to be able to support my family from my small online jewelry business; not anymore. I’m looking for full-time employment, because people are not spending on jewelry right now. The entire online natural family living community that I work with are also going through this: cloth diapers, knitted baby items, household cloth, natural products.
We have a long way to go before our economy is sustainable, especially if we try to retrofit existing business models to more sustainable ones. But many large corporations are working towards that goal.
I was saying on another thread how I think it’s exciting that we’re finally taking the responsibility for our actions and having to face our wasteful ways. It’s going to be neat and already is pretty cool to see how people are changing their lifestyles to become more economic and less excessive.
littlegems-you’re so right, people are spending less on things they don’t need. My family owns a greenhouse business though and there business has increased each year for the past ten years. People now are begining to realize that plants are just pretty they’re useful too. It’s beautiful
First big businesses go under, then smaller ones and then the retailers and so on. People will be out of work therefore without money and not able to pay high prices for electricity, gas, petrol let alone food. Those who are locked in cities without ownership of arable land will suffer a lot.
It is funny that it is all happening before the General elections. Is G.W. Bush going to cancel elections in this state of emergency? Perhaps it is all nicely planned.
I hope I am wrong and that people in the West will just go back to the slow and modest pace of living.
A good documentary (including a speech by the former UK Environment minister): http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=oil+mirro…
Lot of us raw foodist from northern regions depend on imported stuff…
in my area small businesses tend to thrive under these conditions because more people are localizing. The local coffee shop is not starbucks, it’s a small business. The local appliance store isn’t sears, it’s a small business. They’re getting more business because no one wants to drive twenty miles to the corporation location.
renesschwarz – quote “it is funny that it is all happening before the General elections. Is G.W. Bush going to cancel elections in this state of emergency? Perhaps it is all nicely planned.”
Don’t know if it is true but something tells me that this crisis is somehow manufactured, seriously is anyone really thinking that bankers are so stupid?
One thing scares me and that is the fact that I depend on imported foods in the winter as I live in “cold” Canada, everything else I can deal with.
Reneschwarz. Whether this down is going to continue or go back up soon, I believe that within our lifetimes we will see a economic collapse.
Its frightening to think about yes, but you must prepare for the worse in case this done happen.
I know its not possible to most people, not possible for me even, but to be able to live off the grid can help you survive more comfortably than most. e.g. solar power, wind power.
Also being able to stock food for future needs is needed, as well as learning how to garden anywhere.
Whats said is that there has been in the past a law trying to get passed to actually STOP people rom hording food for times of crisis. And in a time of crisis, the government would of been able to say that your saved food is now theirs by law.
I do agree on the Bush thing. I have thought about it numerous times how he could get a third term, maybe a fourth. But I realized Bush isnt that smart, the people behind him are though.
What if the election is rigged to McCain in office? Someone in my opinion who is A LOT worse than Bush, and a Vice President who doesnt know her backside from her front in politics.
Whats funny, is that I would welcome that to happen. People dont start to learn about their role in life/government until its so oppressive that change has to be forced, and they realize that a government, nor political leaders like ours can evoke that change.
Voting for political change does nothing as long as its just a democratic and republican candidate. They are all the same in the end. Make change happen in your own lives and community so that way when society crumbles, you have people around you who care for their community and will help you fight to keep it.
I do hope you are wrong reneschwartz, but it does seem that this crisis was planned somehow.
Melaverde, exactly that is what I was thinking. I can’t believe the bankers did not see this houseing bubble.
haha I was entertained by your post. So true about change. We are the ones who need to change our lives. It’s not the governments job to do that. Our founding fathers were a bit more accurate when it came to government in my opinion. People of course were allowed to prepare for hard times and they were probably encouraged to because times were so hard back then.
I have to disagree with you on the Palin thing. She at least has more experience that Obama. Don’t hurt me but I personally think that junior senator is a little scary to elect as president.
No its okay. I may be speaking withou knowledge on Palin as I havent followed the elections at all. Ive read probably a total of 4 articles and listend to Obama’s Democratic Convention speech.
The only thing I remember reading somewhere is that Palin has only been governer of Alaska for a year and a half, and that is the only experience she has. I could be wrong, like I said, I dont follow politics very much, I only follow it on a local scale where I actually have seen change happen. So far I havent seen much happen in country politics to make me a believer of democracy, no matter who is in office.
I know its all connected, but oppurtunities exist on the local scale no matter who is on office. States has actually legalized gay marriage under the Bush regime without him being able to do anything. AMAZING~! :)
Well put jkd…soccer801.
Yes! We need to do our part as individuals and communities instead of blaming the federal government for all the problems that go on. It’s our duty as citizens to get involved. At least vote on everything we can.
I agree that McCain is a bit off. Palin may be too but in general I agree with her. I’m a conservative. Less government=more freedom in my eyes.
She did alot in that year and a half. I mean, a year and a half it something. Obama is forced to vote with his party majority as a junior senator so we can’t even see what kind of voter he is. He also seems to try to smooth talk his way out of all kinds of things. It’s rather troubling to me.
jkd_soccer801 – Nice statement “Voting for political change does nothing as long as its just a democratic and republican candidate. They are all the same in the end. Make change happen in your own lives and community so that way when society crumbles, you have people around you who care for their community and will help you fight to keep it.“
:) I agree with you trouble on Obama. As much as I would like to see him in office, I still dont trust him. I remember in caucases and prelims he was very liberal and stuck to his guns, but now that he is the candidate, it seems his policies are changing more towards the middle ground. Demoplican if you will lol. But most political leaders do that, especiall once on such a big stage.
And I do agree that Less Government=more freedom. But did we see that under Bush at all? No, he actually took away our freeoms by passing the Patriot Act and numerous other terrorists bills that can actually make some activists against the government labeled as terrorists if business’s can prove they lost money because of their actions, whether peaceful or not.
And is McCain or Palin any different? McCain seems to be an smarter but still groomed to be president Bush.
As I believe it was you who stated before, way back in the day with the founding Fathers things seemed a bit better. But during that time the demo’s and repub’s where very unlike what they are now. It has been a role reversal. Where Republicans back then fought for less government control, they now seem to want more. Where back then Democrats wanted more control, it seems, as far as rights are concerned, they want less now.
A side note cuz I only have a minute, on the conservative “less government=more freedom” idea.
I have never fully understood this statement. I really became politically aware first under the Bush regime and listening to what Republicans try to push. So many want to outlaw abortion, gay marriage (Like most Republicans, McCain says he wants to leave it as a State issue, but he, like most Republicans, is personally is against it), giving up privacy and rights in the name of “national security” and and push more and more things that put scarier and scarier government on us taking away more and more of our civil liberties.
I’m totally not trying to start a fight, I just never understood how this is “less government.” (I’m a bleeding heart liberal in case you hadn’t guessed! :p )