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Let's Limit our Consumption of Bee Products

RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

Consuming bee products is causing bees to die, and if they die, we won’t survive. For every tablespoon of honey we consume, that’s 2000 hours of work for one bee. Evidence shows bees are disappearing. It’s just like eating dairy as far as cruelty goes. Let’s protect them by limiting our intake of honey.





  • dodododo Raw Newbie

    ive not eaten any animal product, including bee products for 8.5 years and have not missed any of it, i fully agree with rawkidchef, leave the bees be, let them get themselves together again. i think they need all their strength to try and ensure their survival, our unnecessary pilfering isnt helping matters.

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    I disagree. obviously I’m not 100% vegan but not only is making honey not harming the bees but they make about twice as much as they need. Bee keepers and their relationship with bees is a beautiful thing. They respect them, care for them, put the hives where there are plenty of flowers and take only what is extra.

    The shortage of bees is because of a virus. It has nothing to do with honey.

    As far as enslavement goes, tons of vegans have pets. Is that then enslavement? I doubt it.

    I know many caring and loving bee keepers and I see no exploitation going on.

    This sounds like I’m critizing vegans but I respect that you don’t eat bee products. I just personally don’t see it as exploitation. I enjoy honey rarely but it’s good when I do.

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Oh okay. I guess I should change the title then. That’s good. Thanks. :)

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    Why change the title? I think it’s good. It’s something to think about.

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    I think there should be more education to the consumer about the bad bee keepers, the en mass bee farms, coz they are the ones that are a problem.

    Like you say, there are Lovely bee keepers who have amazing relationships with their bees, and these people need to be supported. If more people knew what the difference was environmantally, and in terms of the well being of the bees then it would help to turn the tide. Just like people here in the UK buy a lot of free range eggs because the plight of the poor battery hen has been so in the press over the last 10 years.

    If bee populations are in trouble in the wild, like we keep hearing, then is it important for good, ethical bee keepers to keep colonies to keep the numbers up? I don’t know enough about the situation to know the answer to this. Is there a bee expert out there who could answer this?

    By the way, I knew a girl who would go into her garden in the morning when it was cold and the bees were dozy and not yet warmed up, and she’d take them in her hands and cup one in both hands, warm it up and then it would fly away. She wasn’t a bee keeper, she just had this affinity with the wild bees that visited her garden.

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    That is so beautiful Zoe! I feel like writing a book about a girl who has an affinity with the wild bees.

    I don’t know to much about mass bee farms because not only do I not support them ( I only buy local honey) but there are so many bee keepers in this area that even the grocery stores carry mostly local.

    I do know the virus that is killing the bees has an unknown source and it’s definitely affecting the pollination of plants mostly in Asia. It’s a serious problem and I’m not sure how it can be resolved. They’re studying the virus to see if it can be treated.

  • angie207angie207 Raw Newbie

    I aspire to one day be a beekeeper – for a lot of the reasons stated above: I will know that my honey comes as excess from the bees who are well taken care of, and I will know that there will be plenty of bees to pollinate my plants and those of the people living around me. If I eat bee pollen, it will be the stuff that is naturally left around the hive & not purposely extracted in a way that is harmful to the bees. I will also have a little wax to make candles in case I’m without power in the future. :)

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    see, now that is just lovely angie. I have friends like you and it’s such a beautiful thing. There is also a blueberry farm near where I live that uses bee hives to pollenate their blueberry bushes and the excess honey they sell. It’s such a happy little world there.

  • I’m not sure if it’s been proven that it is a virus, troubles. But I do know that a study was done in Oregon and only the bees that did not live on organic farms were disappearing. This makes sense because bees that do not live on organic farms get their hives fumigated for mites (and who would want to go back to a fumigated home?)

    The bees from organic farms, however, were fine and doing well.

    There is also some studies being done (I’m sure you’ve heard about them) connecting the link between cellphone use and bee disappearance, but I think that has all turned out inconclusive.

    I think that bee product consumption is a personal choice, but that if you are going to use bee products, try and get local products from an organic farm.

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    okay jellibi-I totally agree with that. It makes so much sense! Besides the poor bees getting fumigated the honey is too! That can’t be good.

    hmm, then maybe it wasn’t a virus. I recently watched two different things about the bee problem in Asia. Didn’t mention when they were organic or not. But they’re hurting over there for bees.

  • I don’t think that scientists are in agreement about what is going on yet. Some probably believe it’s a virus, while others think it is due to GMO crops (likely, in my opinion), others think maybe cellphones are to blame, and some believe, as I stated above, that it’s the fumigation of the hives. Here’s an interesting quote I just found online though:

    Bees, those hard workers who spend their days pollinating our crops, are disappearing. Scientists call this phenomenon the “Colony Collapse Disorder” (CCD) This disorder occurs when a hive’s inhabitants suddenly disappear, leaving only the queen bees, the eggs and a few workers. The missing bees are never found, but scientists think they become separated from their hive and die. Another strange part of this puzzle is that the parasites, wildlife and other bees that normally raid the honey and pollen left behind when a colony dies, refuse to go anywhere near the abandoned hives. Dead adult bees aren’t even found by the hive, they are just gone. This is highly unusual. considering that bees are highly social insects.”


  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    yeah, it’s definitely weird. They’re not only social but they’re loyal too. Think about how many times they leave the hive to search for flowers and always come back?

  • This thread also got me thinking about this: I wonder how domesticated bees are by now. I really have no idea. If lots of people were to limit bee product consumption, and farmers did not “keep” hives, would the amount of bees go up or down?

    It’s like cows, they obviously can’t survive in the wild. If farmers would stop caring for them they would all die. (I am in no way saying that I support cattle farming)

    I hope I don’t sound too stupid for asking these questions, but I’m wondering…. anyone know or have thoughts about this?

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    hmmm, interesting thought. I assume they would stay where they were. I never thought about that. But since there are bees in the wild and their source of food is not given to them from the keeper they would definitely survive. It would be an interesting experiment.

  • Oh, duh, you’re right. They don’t rely on the keeper for food. :) Obviously my brain isn’t working too well this morning :)

    What does a beekeeper do then? Just take the honey?

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Wow Zoe, that’s amazing. I didn’t know bees could be held without stinging people. :)

    I think we should become more aware about the beekeepers that we’re buying honey from. I love honey and it would be a shame to stop eating it. It should be considered vegan-friendly as long as it is harvested by good beekeepers.

    Cell phone use and bee depopulation? That’s interesting. I am uncertain about the virus thing, maybe in some areas it is true and in others it isn’t. It all depends on the conditions. Am I not aware of a plague going around the country affecting bees? It is something to look into.

    jellibi, no that’s not stupid. It’s a very good point and we should all look into this more.

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    well I know for the most part they leave them alone but they do place the hive in a place with plenty of flower opportunities and they keep the hive from clogging up with old honey. Every once in a while when the hive is full of honey they take out a layer and harvest it. I don’t know how often that is. A couple times a season or maybe only once a season.

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    Yes she came to stay with us and she showed me how to warm the bees. It was amazing. The same girl had two cats who ran away from home when she moved house. She thought they were gone forever, then one day she heard a miow at the back door and there they were waiting to be let in as if nothing happened. They’d been gone for 6 months, living off wild rabbit. It made the local news!

  • I don’t have much to add to this conversation except to say this: I really like how you are so open to new information and learning RawKidChef. I have never seen you get defensive and try to defend your position, against new evidence. It is truly a pleasure to read your posts; you provide an honest interest in learning and growing that is quite valuable here.

    thank you! :)

  • I have a friend doing a research paper on the depopulation of bees. I thought there was still controversy on whether the culprit is cell phone radiation, gmo crops, pesticides, or a virus, etc, but the answer seems to be pretty clear to her…

    Apparently unlike other insects bees do not have an immune system. Thats why when a bee comes back to the hive and he is sick, they don’t let him in, or they kick him out. But when bees are off pollinating and they get pesticide residue on their wings, the hive cannot detect it on them. So they go back into the hive unnoticed and then the whole hive gets sick from the pesticide. I didn’t know that about what Jellibi wrote, seems to fit!

    wow, how do you hold a bee in your hand? That reminds me of my friend who used to rescue skunks so neighborhoods wouldn’t kill them, and they never sprayed him. I think we still have a lot of fear of bees due to our lack of understanding of them…. probably better that we fear them, for the bees at least!

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    kundalalita-This is very interesting! So they pretty much know and yet continue to spray? Or do they not know?

    Seems very sad to me.

  • Hm, thats a good question! I don’t know who knows or not. Maybe they know but it will have to get bad before they change, and its easier to just say the cause is unknown. Kinda like brain tumors and the cell phone industry, they save/make more money keeping it as if the link is not clear…

  • Don’t quote me on anything I type here, cause it was a couple years ago, but back when I was wasting too much time watching random junk on tv one of the actually educational shows that stuck out was about the increase in beekeeping courses around the U.S.

    They said that because the bees seemed to be dying off, colleges and other organizations around the country were offering low cost beekeeping courses to try to encourage individuals to keep hives at their homes. It’s not just the bees they’re worried about, without the bees the plants don’t get the pollination they need to survive.

    The idea that pollutants are a big factor in the decrease in bees makes tons of sense- they said that one hive of bees can pollinate a 20 mile (I think that was the number) radius- that’s a lot of possible pollutants to pick up.

    I just googled beekeeping classes in my area (Seattle) and found a free one I might just check out. My roommates already have horses, goat, cats and free range chickens, maybe a little bee hive is something I can contribute to the “farm” without having to take care of an animal that needs daily care :).

  • I also suspect that chemical spraying is killing the bees. See this thread: http://www.goneraw.com/forums/other-stuff/topic…

  • “Like you say, there are Lovely bee keepers who have amazing relationships with their bees, and these people need to be supported.” I’ll support someone who keeps hives but is not selfish and leaves the bees’ honey alone, without trying to garner a profit off of them and to further satisfy their tastes.

    I don’t eat my cats’ piss, nor collect it, nor sell it. Hardly a good comparison.

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    superfood-sorry if that was offensive to you. I see things differently than you do I guess.

    But like I said before, I really respect your desire and convictions to live completely vegan. It’s admirable.

  • No, I appreciate that. You’ve seen a limited number of local “beekeepers” or “honey-takers,” as I would call them, and somehow, you seem to draw the conclusion that it’s a “beautiful” thing and you see nothing wrong with it.

    Do you feel the same way about dairy, if you saw a small, two-cow farm, that you see no exploitation and it’s a beautiful thing? You realize that you don’t see everything that happens; right?

  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    I’m still trying to figure out how I feel about dairy products. I know I can’t eat them for health reason and I definitely see how ridiculous it is that we take milk from a cow of all animals but I don’t know how I feel about the cruelty of it. I’ve known dairy farmers and they love their cows but I can’t seem to get past the silliness.

    With bees it’s different. They live in a hive and take their food from flowers and are left alone by the bee keeper most of the year. The extra honey they produce is harvested. Nothing they need is taken from them. That’s why I don’t see it as exploitation. With the cow, it’s definitely being exploited. Maybe not cruelly but definitely unnecessarily.

    I don’t know if that makes sense but I’m just trying to get it figured out for myself. It was only a couple months ago that I was even presented with the reason vegans don’t drink milk. I had no idea! So it’s new to me and I’m still figuring it out.

  • RawKidChef,

    Thank you so much for posting this! I agree 100%. Honey is mass produced. The amount of small beekeepers in relation to the magnitude of mass producers are minimal at best. We don’t NEED honey so why manipulate another species and further threaten the environment.

    Here is an interesting fact sheet: http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID…

    Troublesjustabubble, if you are questioning whether dairy production is cruel, please take some time to explore this horribly cruel and unhealthy industry. Again, the days of small family farms over OVER. 95% of all animal agriculture is done in a factory farm. If you are not familiar with factory farms, please investigate. They are windowless buildings where animals live their lives in INTENSE confinement. They cannot turn around, see the light of day or experience any natural behavior. They are commonly brutalized and live their lives in discomfort and fear. Dairy cows are no different. They are hooked up to machines 24/7 producing milk at an expected rate and then ultimately sent to slaughter.

    Please visit these websites:



  • troublesjustabubbletroublesjustabubble Raw Newbie

    vegan, thank you for reminding me that there is a much bigger picture. I have only known the small dairies in rural areas. I suppose it’s the same with mass produced honey. It’s so sad how our country has become like this. I wish everyone would localize so we could abolish these large corporations.

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