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Question for RawKidChef

Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

Hi Raw Kid!

I saw on your profile that you feed your cats whole mice and chickens. (and I cant believe that you’re only 12… you are very smart!)

I’ve always felt HORRIBLE about feeding my cats processed cat foods, even the organic ones seem pretty nasty! One of my cats is not only mostly blind, but his body creates mineral crystals that form in his bladder and can block his urine from coming out completely which can be fatal in just hours! So, he is on a prescribed diet that has lowered levels of magnesium.. but it’s not organic and definitely made from the boiled leftovers from slaughterhouses.

I would bet that feeding him mice would be better for him, and for my ‘normal’ cat. Where do you get them? Do you keep them frozen? What about the raw chicken?

Have you noticed a big difference in your cats health?

Thanks!!

Comments

  • TomsMomTomsMom Raw Newbie

    Poor Annabelle and kitty:(

    I know you’re waiting for RawKidChef to answer, but in the meantime, here is an awesome link for you: http://rawfedcats.org

    There is no prescription food that is fit for cats. Most of it, if not all, contains grains, for one thing, and just plain filth. Cats are obligate carvivores and can’t derive proper nutrition from it. I know it hurts veggies to feed kitties a raw carnivorous diet, but if you’re like me, with a sick rescue kitty, it needs to be done.

    I’ve seen tons of kitties with crystals recover on a proper raw diet. Crystals are almost always caused by diet.

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Hi Annabelle! Yes, I do feed my Siamese cat raw whole mice and chickens. She has shown hugely dramatic improvement since we switched her from ground raw food to whole raw prey. I first found out about the whole prey diet from http://www.rawfedcats.org. Also, check the tab link about “Just say no to Ground Food” and you’ll learn a lot! It’s important that the cat eats meat in the whole form versus ground.

    She has eaten raw her whole life (since we got her), but much of the time she was eating ground food. Her gingivitis went away once we changed to whole prey and we never used any antibiotic. It is crucial they chew the whole bones, as their teeth and gums are susceptible to dental problems that are related to diet.

    I buy the whole chicks from http://prey4pets.com, and they’re very inexpensive compared to ground raw food, so I usually stock up with a whole bunch of ‘em. Also, that place doesn’t sell mice, which we get separately from http://www.rodentpro.com. She eats the hopper mice size, the adults are too big for her still! But we also let her chew on some adult chicken backs (whole). Make sure you don’t get raw meat from the store as it is usually irradiated.

    And, yes, I store them in the freezer, and defrost them under warm water.

    I agree that a raw diet will get rid of the crystals. My cat had been depressed and when I fed her ground food, but that changed when we fed her a mouse! You’ll have lots of fun feeding whole prey (they usually like to throw them up in the air and shake them in the mouth)

    You’ll definitely want to check out rawfedcats.org, as it’s got lots of information you’ll benefit from. Your cat will also have no more crystal problems with raw. Mine never ate ground food again after she had one mouse! It’s funny how they refuse lower quality once they’ve tried better. :)

  • Hi!

    I too have started feeding my cat raw foods. Although right now I am limited to what they have in the butcher block of Whole Foods.

    I have a question though. My cat seems to eat the meat if it falls on the ground or I put it their for him, but not on his plate.

    Also, should I be wearing gloves when handling the meat? I had one more question I just cant think of it…

    Oh yeah! How long can you keep raw meat on the plate for before its no good? Can you freeze the meat he doesnt eat?

    Ive been vegan for 7 years, and this whole meat thing is new to me.

    Wait. He is eating the meat now on the plate! Yaya!

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Yup, my cat won’t eat her chicks on the plate either! She always brings them on the carpets. So we put her in the bathroom with the chick on the floor and close the door so she eats it inside there. There is a little bit of a mess, but not as much as there would be if she threw it all over the rug.

    And, no, you don’t actually have to wear gloves. The meat should be fresh and smell clean, if it doesn’t, then don’t give it to your cat. Also, it’s important not t buy “raw” meat from the health store. It is irradiated and therefore dead. It is best to purchase from reliable sources such as Prey 4 Pets. Just wash your hands before and after handling it. It should be safe and clean.

    I’d say don’t leave raw meat out of the freezer longer than 6 hours. It’s oka to freeze the leftovers, but better throw it out and just give fresh. Usually there aren’t many leftovers, if any.

    Also, it’s really important to have the right calcium-phosphorus balance. You need to give both whole raw meat and whole raw bones. The best and most natural way to do this is to feed whole chicks or mice, or other small animals. Don’t give whole organ meat. Always give a whole animal (you can also give whole chicken legs/wings/backs sometimes for extra meat). Don’t do the ground food. (read the second link)

    http://www.rawfedcats.org

    http://www.rawfedcats.org/ground.htm

    http://www.rawfedcats.org/naturesway.htm

    http://www.rawfedcats.org/practicleguide.htm

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    wow… that’s amazing stuff! I think I will order some mice soon (they’re already dead, right?)

    When I tried to do a raw diet a few years back, the recipe had me grinding up chicken meat and bones and adding grapefruit extract to kill any organisms. My cat HATED it… and then I learned why.

    Apparently, you can also use grapefruit extract as a mouthwash. You are supposed to dilute ONE DROP into some water and then swish. Well, me being the brilliant person I am took a mouth-full of water and then dropped a drop of the extract into my mouth. Well, the drop went right through to my tongue (duh!) and burned my tastebuds off. I couldnt taste anything for DAYS! and it was soooo bitter you wouldnt believe it.

    Here kitty! have some bitter-tasting ground up chicken that will burn your tongue!

    anyway, thanks for all the great info! I know it’s weird to order meat as a vegan, but I think that if you take on the responsibility of taking care of pets, it is imperative that you provide the best, healthiest life for them… and I’m sorry, but cats are 100% carnivores (aside from the greens they get from mice-guts!)

  • Branwyn32Branwyn32 Raw Newbie

    1) Great info here! I worked at an animal hospital for a while and was familiar w/the health improvements of pets on raw diets, but the raw prey diet is new to me, and makes the most sense. Thanks for all the wonderful info RawKidChef!

    2)YOU’RE ONLY 12? Holy crap! You are an absolutely brilliant young girl! From your posts I figured you were in your 20s! WOW! How did you come to the raw lifestyle at such an early age? Is your family raw? You are amazing!

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Hey Annabelle, I’m sure your kitty will love the mice! Yes, the ground up meat theory is ridiculous as is the fruits and vegetables. And grinding the bones isn’t good either because the cat needs to chew them. (hence long sharp teeth suited to breaking tough bones).

    Oh, and yes, the mice are definitely pre-killed. :)

    Wow, that grapefruit extract thing sounds crazy! So deceiving. I agree it’s strange to have mice in the house, but we feed them to our snake too (yup, we got a reptile). I’ve seen so many raw ground up frozen foods in certain pet stores that are stuffed with fruits and vegetables and flaxseed and all sorts of weird stuff that cats aren’t supposed to eat. Well, we switched her off those and onto the whole prey diet and she’s like a totally different cat. I can’t wait to hear how your cat likes those mice! :)

    Branwyn, thanks! Yep, my mom was getting sick when I was young so she read about holistic remedies (certain supplements) that were amazing, microgreens and algaes and all sorts of interesting stuff. So, I’ve never really eaten much bad food except when I was really young, but we started eating healthier and healthier till we were eating lots of fruits and raw nuts, and little bits of cooked food like sprouted bread. Then, we got rid of the bread and eat mostly raw now. My mom, my cat, and my snake and I all eat raw. :)

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    Hi again Raw Kid!

    I am thinking seriously about buying some frozen mice from RodentPro. In your opinon, what size should I get? How many? Do I thaw them in warm water? How do I know when they are warm inside too? I’m hesitant about buying chicks… they’re so cute!

    My cat, Neffies, is petite. Maybe 7 lbs. She is also 8 years old… I hope she will realize it’s food for her!

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Hi again Annabelle!

    Good question. We were getting the fuzzie size mice before, which were very small. Our next order of them is coming today, and we got the hoppers. I think the hoppers would be great for a 7-lb cat, as my cat is that size and needs a slightly larger size than the largest fuzzies. She is willing to eat the adult mice but leaves all the organs, so by eating the smaller mice she can’t get around the organs. Each bag of the hopper mice has 100 mice, and since there’s a sale right now and because shipping is expensive (don’t be turned off by the shipping – the more you buy the cheaper the shipping costs) we usually order around 5 bags. It’s a lot of mice but it’s more efficient than spending lots for shipping.

    As far as defrosting, yes, let them sit in warm water until they are soft all the way through. You don’t have to take too much trouble in thawing them as Neffies will not mind if they are slightly frozen. Yes, the chicks are cute (they’re also my cat’s favorite) and they are a lot bigger and messier which makes the mice all for the better. I’m sure she’ll love ‘em!

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    thanks for the advice! I will order some today and let you know what happens as soon as we get them! (my boyfriend is pretty freaked out by the whole idea… so looks like I’ll be the only one doing the thawing, and cleaning!)

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    Hey Rawkid,

    I got a bag of frozen hoppers (sure looks creepy!) I thawed one and let my cats at it. They tossed it around, and played with it, bit into it… but wouldnt eat it. I ended up throwing it out, which bothers me… any tricks on getting them to eat?

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Hey Annabelle, sorry it took so long. I was just flipping through threads.

    They can start out pretty picky with the mice but if you keep at it they will eventually get it. Sometimes mine just plays with it and forgets about it, so we place it on some newspaper in the bathroom and put her in there and close the door, and if she cries we let her out but now she usually finishes it off in five minutes. She like the chicks a lot better but they are a little fattier and aren’t the healthiest. You can check out this page for how to get them to eat the mice (or any prey):

    http://www.rawfedcats.org/practicleguide.htm

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    Thanks RawKid.

    Actually, my younger cat Mongoose (“Goose”) LOVES LOVES LOVES his mice! He gobbles them up in seconds! My older cat Neffies wouln’t go for it for days and days… but yesterday I cut up the mouse (not a pleasant experience) and mixed it with wet cat food… she finally got the idea. So this morning I gave her a cut-up mouse without cat food, and she ate it all. I think I will slowly give her bigger pieces until her jaws and teeth get stronger and she is able to take on a whole mouse.

    I realize that I have to offer them more than mice… fish, chicks, and eggs? hmmm… can I give you my email address?

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Hey, that rocks that Goose and Neffies are eating the mice! I actually haven’t got an email address, but if you’re okay with it we can just continue writing in this thread, or if you have a giveittomeraw account they do private messaging. Either way is fine.

    Yes, eventually when they starts eating whole mice you will want to slowly add different prey to their diets, as you really will not enjoy cutting up the chicks, heh, if you know what I mean. The fish and eggs are meant to be more of a treat, as I have read (but can’t be sure) that fish has a poor calcium phosphorous balance. Same with eggs, though it is a different type of food because it isn’t an animal. Still adding little bits of these things will be good. Mainly, rodents and birds are probably better, so I’m sticking with mice and chicks but mostly mice. Mice are supposed to be the best for cats so we’re betting on that.

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    Thanks RawKid! we can continue to write on this thread, thats cool. And thanks so much for being my information source and support through this—I know that I will have many questions as we move along! I am also wanting to get my dog on raw—but I think that will be a lot more difficult—unless dogs can do well on mice and chicks too! (I dont like the idea of buying turkey necks and cow bones—and I will NEVER buy regular meat from factory farms)

    Neffies and Goose both ate 2 mice this morning and they are CRAZY for more! It is great to see them interact with their food as they were meant to! and I cant wait to see how clean and white Neffies teeth get! exciting!

  • randommararandommara Raw Newbie

    Hey do any of you have dogs that you feed raw? I tried the frozen raw food a few years ago but they didn’t like it and wouldn’t eat so eventually I put them back on Newman’s organic. I had read about giving them chicken backs and stuff but all my dogs are very small (one is only 4 lbs) and they were totally uninterested in chicken necks. Ok warning this is going to get gross…. they now all eat their own poo (have been for about a year) and I’m worried that it’s because they’re not getting sufficient nutrients. Not to mention the unexpected yummy kisses they give me! Ewww!!! Sometimes one of them just runs up and lays one on me and if they’ve just had a snack, well you can just imagine the horror! And yes I have tried pineapple and pumpkin, I even tried a powder from the vet. Do you think dogs would eat mice? I know some small dogs were bred to be mouse and rat hunters.

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    Hi Randommara…

    I want to start my dog on raw too. I am not sure if he will go for the mice. I showed him one yesterday and he looked at me like I was crazy! My dog is pretty small too, but not tiny like yours (maybe 12 lbs).

    For your little guys, maybe start them on organic meat (chunks of steak or burger) from a good grocery store and mix it with their regular food just to get them acclimated to the taste. That is what I am thinking about doing with my guy—except I am nervous about buying meat—due to the horrible slaughtering process and other ethical issues. (the mice I get are put to sleep)

    I just saw an episode of “It’s me or the dog’ on animal planet—where their dogs ate their poop… They used a system of rewards with behavior modification to get them to stop—but it was difficult. Not sure if that signifies nutritional issues—maybe I’ll google that.

    oh, and great point about hunting dogs… many breeds were bred to hunt small vermin. My dog, who is part chihuahua was bred to be lazy and look sweet..ha ha!

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Hey, no prob, I’d love writing on here about our pets! :)

    I have read that eating the poop is a sign of malnutrition, but I can’t put my hands on where I read it. It was a malnutrition of a specific nutrient. I will see if I can pull it back up.

    Anyway, yes, randommara, the raw ground pet food is pretty artificial in a way, my cat began to refuse it after she got hold of a mouse. Blueberry, my cat, also doens’t like the chicken backs. I think they are too big for her. I’ve pulled this article up, scroll down until you get to the part about feeding a complete and balanced diet. It recommend as complete of a variety that you can get, and the same is true for cats too. It recommends eggs (whole including the shell), and pretty much any kind of meat. You can actually buy pre-killed rabbits for dogs, I believe at rodentpro.com Anyway, here it is. Also, you can get a big variety of whole prey from www.prey4pets.com:

    http://www.justamere.com/newsletter/rawfeeding.asp

  • Annabelle77Annabelle77 Raw Newbie

    Hi Rawkid and Randommara,

    I just bought chicks and fish for my cats at Prey 4 Pets. I also got 2 turkey wings to start with for my dog. It is creepy to but meat again, but I figure the amount of suffering is next to nothing compared to what’s in “cat and dog food”

    I’ll keep you posted on what happens with my dog! I hope he gets it!

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Cool! That’s awesome :)

  • emtpdmomemtpdmom Raw Newbie

    I am aware of two non-nutrient reasons canines eat their poop: 1) if confined to a small area, to clean up their environment, and 2) if scolded or otherwise punished for pooping in the wrong place, to avoid the negative consequences. My chihuahua is crated when I’m not home (severe separation anxiety, ie, he literally eats holes in doors and shreds drapery, etc.), and started eating his poop. I got a “pill” from the pet store that he took for a couple of weeks. Problem solved. This was BEFORE I “met” you wonderful people. I’m not sure how I would approach the problem now.

  • RawKidChefRawKidChef Raw Newbie

    Blueberry is even better when I started feeding her whole chicken wings. I think in addition to the small whole prey some more muscle meat is helpful. I just bought an organic raw chicken at the health store which you can throw away the fat of and just feed the wings/necks/legs. You may want to try that as an addition. Still feed the small chicks/mice for organs and other bones. But I think feeding the whole legs (including bones) is very beneficial.

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