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Random Questions not meant to offend anyone:)

have_merseyhave_mersey Raw Newbie

1. It seems that freezing our food is still extreme temperatures (like cooking), so how are the enzymes living? The produce tastes and feels a little better than cooked, but should I be doing this at all or save it for emergencies (Only lately have I been freezing things…like tasty mango pulp!)

2. I’ve always wondered how vegans group insect products with animal products? And also, how we can justify killing one thing (plant and in some cases insect), yet another is untouchable(animal)? I personally don’t eat animals because they are not good for me, and yes they are really cute and when you picture them you think of big watery eyes…but why are they above another living thing? I feel guilty for eating both, but plants are absolutely nessecary. I do like the fruitarian concept of not killing the plant, but eating it’s fruit and planting the seeds, but we’re still eating a bit of them. So if the shavings from a horse’s hoof were good for us, and they didn’t harm the horse but actually help it to take them, would a vegan be against eating it? Why don’t some vegans wear wool when the sheep actually NEED to be sheared? I’ve been wondering about all of this and more lately. I think it’s because today I haven’t bothered cleaning my house or doing errands so had entirely too much time to think and bother everyone else with my thoughts.


  • southernloversouthernlover Raw Newbie

    When you eat fruit and lettuce, it grows back. When you kill an animal, it doesn’t grow back. Makes sense to me. Also, save the freezing for emergencies. You are right on with that concept. :)

  • southernloversouthernlover Raw Newbie

    Or at least, it can grow back. If you pick a leaf off of a plant, it grows back…

  • WinonaWinona Raw Newbie

    I agree on using freezing only in cases when food would go to waste, as some enzymes are destroyed.

  • angie207angie207 Raw Master

    Freezing for a long time destroys enzymes. I freeze things like pies and ice creams that I’m going to eat in a few days, and fruit in the summer when it grows here & I’m not going to get it all eaten. I have also frozen things like raw corn tortillas cuz I want the corn in the winter, but frozen veggies in the store have been blanched. So, yeah, mostly for emergencies or quick things as far as freezing goes. I have wondered about the wool, too, and then I realized that we wouldn’t be raising the sheep (using up land & water that could be used to grow plant foods or left as natural habitat) if we didn’t use the wool. As far as honey/bee pollen, I don’t get that one. It’s not hurting the bees, as long as they are treated well and enough honey is left for them to eat – Gabriel Cousens defines vegan as no eggs, dairy or flesh. So I’m waiting for the answer on that one, especially because the negative health effects of “animal products” are from eggs, dairy and flesh, and not negative effects from honey, bee pollen or royal jelly?

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    There is some evidence floating around on the net about raw food and freezing. I am sorry to be so vague…I just remember clearly reading that someone measured and 50% of the enzymes were alive after freezing…still better than cooking but not as good as fresh.

    Sheep only need to be sheared because they have been selectively bred and messed with so they produce tons of wool. Like the breeds of chickens and pigs that grow so quickly and get fat so quickly they can’t stand up. They would be self sufficient in the wild.

    For me it is an intuitive feeling. My conscience tells me it is wrong to kill an animal or an insect, or mess with their freedom. If I think about eating honey or wearing wool it doesn’t feel quite right to me. I think about the pain and intrusion I have made into the creature’s life. That doesn’t happen when I kill a plant and eat it. I am completely un scientific, but that’s the way I make my decisions, I always know what feels like the right thing to do and what feels like the wrong thing to do..

  • angie207angie207 Raw Master

    Oh, yeah, when you pick a carrot, it doesn’t grow back. :) I grew up eating animals only after they had lived a happy life as our pets (chickens, goats, etc.). So how is eating an animal that has been treated well and is done with its normal life a bad thing, if killing a carrot isn’t? I know a big part of it is sustainability – I could eat a lot more plant food from the same amount of land the animal was grazing on, and then compost the inedible parts of that plant and give back to the soil. But we had 3 acres and not enough time/energy to plant and grow food on all that space, so we always had a couple of goats or a sheep or something, and the manure helped fertilize the ground they lived on, too. I think a lot of it is because most animals milked and/or eaten are not treated well and are taking up land and resources that could better serve for growing plant foods. (100 pounds of grain feeds 10 pounds of a cow, which feeds 1 pound of a human, or the same 100 pounds of grain could feed 10 pounds of a human…)

  • have_merseyhave_mersey Raw Newbie

    As you mentioned..It CAN grow back if done properly. If. And lizards’ arms grow back. Not that I am saying I would want to eat one, I’m only questioning why it’s alright to eat the arm of a plant but not a lizard arm? I think it has to do with guilt because the lizard moves and the plant doesn’t (noticeably, they do actually move side to side if they want the sun. I used to turn my plants to watch them face the other side again, as proof of their life. It’s beautiful!).

    Well, if somehow the sheep were tame, but not quite raised and liked shearing. I have been pondering making some kind of silk-like subtsance with abandoned spider webs or abandoned silk worm nests.

    The bee pollen I in my right mind don’t see what’s wrong, as it doesn’t have any of them in it, they only gather it. And plants gather our vitamins for us too, only we have to eat them to get it.

    I don’t know. I’m in a strange mood. I also wonder why people don’t use clean cat hair as yarn. Especially persians and the big fluffy cats that shed everywhere.

  • have_merseyhave_mersey Raw Newbie

    I think what actually started all this is that I met the first plant that had a generous vibe and didn’t seem to mind and actually wanted me to pick it…I got these two lavender plants a few days ago among others. the others I looked at and felt regret because I know I’m raising them to take peices from…but the lavender had this jolly vibe and seemed to express that somehow it didn’t mind and was begging to be picked even though it doesn’t have any flowers on yet.

  • angie207angie207 Raw Master

    Happy lavender – yay! :)

  • pianissimapianissima Raw Newbie

    in autobiography of a yogi he talks about this indian scientist who discovered that any living thing reacts the same way (under the microscope) when attacked. everything “feels.”

    i don’t eat meat because: 1. it is bad for me, not what humans are meant to eat (esp. not in abundance)

    2. it isn’t safe—farming practices being what they are

    3. they are tortured and slaughtered inhumanely and i don’t want to be eating all that pain and stress.

    if the animals are like angie’s then even point 1 still stands… not to mention the “yuck!” factor of chewing on a rotting corpse.

    HOWEVER, our ancestors knew that you should only take what you need. in times of scarcity they would bless and kill an animal, with the full understanding of what they had done. today people don’t even think about lives being taken for the sake of their own survival.

    i think no matter what the life-form we eat it is important to be grateful that the life cycle continues in us. (when you cook food btw the life force is wasted before it even gets to you…)

    did that make sense? i am working through this… cool challenge have_mercey!

  • well, i don’t mean to be offensive either, but if you don’t see a difference between a plant and an animal… i think you have bigger problems than what food you are eating.

  • pianissimapianissima Raw Newbie

    mandelicious—it doens’t have to do with not seeing a difference. the whole point is that we SEE a difference and so we make the distinction.

    but why? because an animal makes a sound when you hurt it? because it has eyes? oysters don’t have a nervous system and neither do clams… so like a leaf, it doesn’t “feel” in the same way humans do… but who are we to judge that it doesn’t experience pain when it is ruptured?

    i’m not advocating not eating plants btw, i just think it’s not all that black and white.

  • angie207angie207 Raw Master

    pianissima – totally agree! Yuck, not what my body needs or wants – I would never eat an animal now, unless the “times of scarcity” took over, and I couldn’t get anything else. But I store extra food and am learning about wild edibles, too, so as to not be left to that choice (or lack of choice). When I was growing up, it was definitely a time of scarcity for our family, and having the animals (raised mostly on the grass we already had and used for milk, eggs & meat) made it so we could survive on my father’s limited income – and we definitely blessed it and were grateful! That’s a whole lot different than most people’s use of meat now – even my parents – “I don’t know what to have for dinner; there’s this meat in the freezer, what else should we have with it?”

    mandelicious – that’s funny! :) True – big differences! I still think it’s interesting and fun to hear people’s opinions and reactions.

  • angie207angie207 Raw Master

    st – You rock!

  • have_merseyhave_mersey Raw Newbie

    I like Zoe, Pianissima, and angies answers very much. Of course I am sure someone assumes I am a raving mad meat eater. Quite the opposite. I am merely questioning why plant life means less than others. It’s understood we have to eat something. The romance of life. Something has to die in order for you to live, but by it’s sacrifice and your pre-processing(digestion) it creates instant feritliser for another plant so an animal can eat it, and another animal can eat that, and that animal can produce waste that will deteriorate into compost for a plant that I will pick and eat. It’s a strange cycle. I suppose in a way my questioning was stating that.

  • angie207angie207 Raw Master

    Another interesting thought – fruit ripens, and then it gets eaten by animals, who then poop out the seeds somewhere else, and that’s how the plants grow more plants. If we left them alone, apricots and apples would drop from the tree. Wheat grows more wheat (seeds) and then the plant dies. If we eat the apple, we’re just part of the process of nature (except that we don’t poop the seeds anywhere), and if we eat any ripe fruit or seed (grain, nut, etc.) we are not taking anything from a plant that would otherwise keep it alive and growing. We’re not killing anything by harvesting and eating ripe fruit, nuts, & seeds.

  • SueSue Raw Newbie

    Interesting topic. Pianissima, you are so right, it’s not all that black and white. That’s why I love this site. There is so much food for thought (pardon the pun.) Ideally, the only food that doesn’t “hurt” to eat is the fruit of a tree, because you’re not killing the tree by eating it and it will produce more fruit. By that logic, cow’s milk and unfertilized chicken eggs are not hurting the animal but I don’t believe humans should be eating them. All root vegatables are goners once you pluck them out of the ground. Even edible weeds are killed once you pull them up. I just don’t know, and the more aware I become, the more I realize I just don’t know. Where do you draw the line? I can’t ever see myself as a fruitarian, much less a breatharian because I would find it too boring, but there are so many unanswered questions about the food we eat, and just as many opinions. As for freezing, yeah, it probably destroys some enzymes, but I feel it’s necessary if you don’t want your food to go to waste.

  • have_merseyhave_mersey Raw Newbie

    this is a good point. I had mentioned it (Sort of haha I get off track), when I mentioned I like the idea of not killing the plant like fruitarians do, and just having the fruit. I was just saying in so many words people are not grateful for the plant’s sacrifice, but feel so bad for adorable jersey cows and so on. I always pray over the plant after I take a peice and try to give them something after to thank them, though it wasn’t their choice.

    I’ve just been thinking alot about nature and human instincts and morals. If I didn’t believe in god I don’t know what I’d do. The whole basis of peoples’ “facts” are generally opinions, and it all disintegrates unless you have something like a god to back it up. And I can see why atheists might think I imagine a god because admittedly I wouldn’t know what to do without one. I do feel God’s presence or I’d agree with them that that might be my reasoning…anyway more blabbering. This is just one of those days when my mind decides to get some excercise and stretch.

  • have_merseyhave_mersey Raw Newbie

    Sorry if this topic has offended anyone, I was just stating and genuinely questioning a few things. :)

  • have_merseyhave_mersey Raw Newbie

    I think you misunderstood the point of my questions and even my statements. Which is my own fault for being so bad with words.

    This is one of those times when I am thankful for my most beloved human, as they always understand exactly what I mean even when it is garbled(I think most human problems are misunderstandings)... And now the longing for their intellectual company shall set in the rest of the night, I miss them….

  • suryadayasuryadaya Raw Newbie

    have_mersey – I like your question. After thinking about it a while I realized that I make a distinction between things that run in fear or scream in pain. I can relate kitties and puppies and turkeys to me. I don’t feel as bad about eating plants, though I will admit that I personify my houseplants and treat them like family. If I could grow a garden, I’d probably talk to every cucumber that came out of it and apologize for having to eat this beautiful thing that I helped manifest. But I don’t have a garden yet so I’ve probably been less appreciative of my miracle cucumbers than I ought to… oh man I’m gonna start feeling bad for every little sprout I just ate. Time to quit this response!

  • KrystaleKrystale Raw Newbie

    An interesting point is that some seeds actually require being eaten to grow. They have coatings that are removed by digestive juices, and if they weren’t eaten they’d die off, with our help they can make new plants and also spread. But then, that was before public restrooms.

    Maybe the difference for some people is that plants don’t run away.

  • well this is a very exsitential conversation. I love these types of topics. For me, well I know many people feel differently than me, but I happen to believe in the food chain. All animals are either carnivorous, herbivores, or omnivores. We are designed to eat a certain way. I believe humans are designed as omnivores based on our teeth structure, but humans were initially scavengers before we were hunters. I don’t think there is anything inherantly WRONG with eating another animal. Many animals have to kill other animals to survive. What I belive is wrong about what humans do now is the torturous slaughter and indecent conditions in which factory animals are housed. I also think it is unnatural to drink the milk of another species. No other animal does THAT! Plus, while at one time it may have been neccessary for humans to eat animals to get adequate nutrition, such as before we invented agriculture, it is simply not neccessary anymore. Through agriculture and the technology and knowledge we have now, we can get all the nutrition we need from a plant based based diet, which is also immensley more healthy than one that includes animal products. As far as plant, well, if we didn’t eat animals or plants we would pretty much die, so I don’t really see the crisis of conciousness in eating a plant. Life is a circle, and everything has to live off it’s environment, there’s really no way around that, it’s how the earth was designed. Animals have brains and nervous systems that allow them to feel pain. That’s a big difference to me. Thanks for listening to my opinions! PS- sorry strawberry, but believing in God doesn’t neccessarily mean you are a Christian and believe in the Bible.

  • pianissimapianissima Raw Newbie

    have_mercey—i totally agree that most argument are misunderstandings. i don’t really see why the defensiveness is kicking in, but i guess that’s just my perspective of seeing this more of an intellectual quandary: how do we best explain WHY we do what we do and why we believe in what we are doing… i personally love a little intellectual stimulant… i certainly am not giving up my salad as a result of this though… there’s a difference between problematizing something and seeing it as a PROBLEM, no?

    rawrach—it seemed to be from our anatomy that we are obviously herbivores, since we don’t have fangs, sharp pointy claws… i can just imagine the comedy unfolding around a bunch of humans with no weapons trying to eat a cow. it seems to me that it is our MIND that has allowed us to climb up a rung on the food chain that our bodies have not earned… minds that create enclosed spaces for livestock, tools and machines to kill them…

  • have_merseyhave_mersey Raw Newbie


  • WinonaWinona Raw Newbie

    pianissima – well said! “the comedy unfolding around a bunch of humans with no weapons trying to eat a cow” fantastic!” i agree with the idea that our minds allowed us to climb up the food chain. I also agree that our bodies were designed to be most healthy as herbivores. mersey – i’m glad you brought up a very intellectual discussion, it’s an interesting question and i’ve never even thought about it.

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