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I seem to have trouble digesting fats, although I believe I need them to maintain a healthy weight (currently underweight) I feel energized by raw fruits and vegetables, but avocados/oils/nuts bring me down. I have not been eating fats regularly, but last night decided to try a bit of avocado with tomato and onion. Today I have felt SICK all day. People tell me I need fat for brain function and cellular communication and function. Anyone out there raw and “fat free” ?



  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    To remain healthy one needs to make sure they have sensible fats in their diet.
    Please do not try to be 100% fat free.
    From the Mayo Clinic site:
    Your body needs fat to function properly. Besides being an energy source, fat is a nutrient used in the production of cell membranes, as well as in several hormone-like compounds called eicosanoids. These compounds help regulate blood pressure, heart rate, blood vessel constriction, blood clotting and the nervous system.
    In addition, dietary fat carries fat-soluble vitamins — vitamins A, D, E and K — from your food into your body.
    Fat also helps maintain healthy hair and skin, protects vital organs, keeps your body insulated, and provides a sense of fullness after meals.

  • if you are eating fruit and veg , you are still getting the necessary ‘good’ fats

    no reason to eat avocado if you don’t want….ensuring you are eating enough calories will stop you ‘using’ overt fats just to make up for lost calories

  • Thanks for the feedback greenghost and el-bo. I am glad to read that fruits and vegetables, besides avocado, have ‘good’ fats. I do need to work on increasing caloric intake. Since going raw, I seem to have energy to go hours without eating and not feeling hunger. When I do feel hungry, I know the hunger is real (as long as I have had adequate sleep the previous night:)

  • elizabethhelizabethh Raw Newbie

    see a medical doctor. a fat free or very low-fat diet is NOT ok. this issue needs to be evaluated by a medical professional.

  • I’ve been wondering about this too, Camilla. Someone posted on a different topic (unfortunately, I forget who, where, when..) that if you have eczema it could mean that you have a hard time processing fats. I’ve been struggling with eczema for-ev-er so I was thinking, should I try and cut out fats for a little while and see if it gets better?

    But, I guess that doesn’t seem to be a good solution. NOt sure what is good for people who have a hard time with fats. It’s strange that just one avocado would make you feel so sick the next day though. hmmmmmm

  • “see a medical doctor. a fat free or very low-fat diet is NOT ok. this issue needs to be evaluated by a medical professional.”

    unless he or she has specialised in nutrition that would be as much use as an ashtray on a motorcycle :o)

    just as with protein, if you are eating any raw food at all, you are likely to not be in any danger of being ‘fat-free’

    what makes you assert that a low-fat diet is “NOT” ok ????

  • WinonaWinona Raw Newbie

    Camilla – I encourage you to not take advice from these forums for something as important as the amount of fats in your diet. Your health is at risk if you take info from unqualified folks. Instead, check out a book on nutrition at your library and read about fats. Or take information from any other scientific studies unrelated to raw about the role of fats in our body. Finally, you CAN supplement this with info from raw food books (gabriel cousens focuses on the biology and uses some scientific studies to back conclusions).

    Remember, folks can SAY anything online. Folks can even WRITE anything in books. But you should go to the source, real science that examines how ‘good fats’ are used by our bodies.

  • seizeseize Raw Newbie

    Not to try to start controversy; however, by saying not to take any advice from anyone on a forum because anyone can ‘say’ or ‘write’ anything – even in a book basically just contradicted your very statement to ‘go to the source and read books about nutrition…” can’t anyone write a book and use a ‘scientific study’ to back what they believe to be true? Even so-called qualified professionals? Who’s to say what is a fact today (based on a science, lol, no science is fact) won’t be brushed off as not true by another study tomorrow? Or years from now?

    By a different standard, I myself look at nutrition in the simplest way possible. How would I eat in the wild? Would I have access to an abundance of fats? Could I break open a cup full of almonds with a rock in a timely fashion to eat? Would the exertion of energy be worth the outcome? How about picking a fruit from a tree or easy to forage greens? Would that energy be worth the outcome? Seems plausible to me. And when those fruits, greens and hard to obtain fats aren’t readily available in the wild – then what? We fast. Not by choice but because of our current circumstances until food is discovered. The emphasis of ‘fats’ on the diet IMHO is quite ludicrous. Are they necessary? Yes. Are more than a very SMALL amount necessary? No. Overconsumption of fats are the culprit in a lot of ailments that plague folks. SAD or RAW. My rant is over.

    Camilla – My advice to you is to understand the principle behind raw foods and to realize why you may appear underweight. I encourage you to check out www.rawfoodexplained.com/index.html to get a firm understanding behind the raw food way of eating. Take care.

  • Love how you put that seize! I’ve never really thought about it that way. But yeah, I agree with all of you saying to be careful who you get your advice from. I believe the best judge of what you put in your body is you. Do what feels right. And read! But read a variety, don’t just read one book and think, oh this is the answer. I pick and choose things from different sources, but keep the ideas that seem to work out for me. It’s definitely a work in progress, figuring out what’s best for you! But I’m sure you’ll figure it out in time! (Or at least some of it! ;) I can tell you that I’m pretty new to this whole thing, and just trying to put the puzzle together one step at a time works pretty well for me!

  • Seize, your rant was brilliant, and thank you for posting that website; it’s very informative.

    El-bo, I love how you remove the emotional b.s. from everything and just get straight to the point. I tend to stay on a super sensitive, super emotional rollercoaster (esp. involving food) but lately whenever I notice myself being that way I recite my newly found El-bo mantra: “just eat fruit!” and then I just go grab a banana and life seems simpler. Thanks!

  • ZanzibarrrZanzibarrr Raw Newbie

    Hmm, I would say first thing, that anyway we have to remember that breatharians really exist, don’t they, they really live on prana, like Michael Werner. So, I don’t know what to think about the question of what is really needed…

    El-bo, my understanding of how sugars and fats are processed is very limited… so if I get it well, anyway, complex carbo, be it fats or fruits have to get broken into monosaccharides , mainly glucose, by the enzymes, yes? and it gets stored as glycogen in the muscles and in the liver, hmm is it correct? But I do pretty well with say, just one avocado ( I don’t do nuts, we really do not get along) and sprouted seeds, like sunflower, hemp, sesame, pumpkin… but then anyway, once sprouted it is not a seed anymore, I mean it is not an ovule, an egg anymore is it? I guess it’s now already a plant, a veg…

    But it is usually said that the organs operate really well on the ketons, these by-products of the breaking of fats by the metabolism ; and it is also said that on glucose , fructose and even also sucrose the insulin rises and falls quick, not good, is it not always the case? Like I know I do well with berries, any kind except straw, but not so good with, say, bananas, I get a lot of mucus and all and I feel really heavy and too "sugary".

    would love to have opinions on that, it’s interesting, what does Mr Graham say?

  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    jellibi, I think that el-bo is great too, has good insight etc… and sometimes the simple answer is the right one.
    BUT – one will not necessarily get enough fat to remain healthy by simply eating fruits and vegetables alone. Granted many f&v have some amounts of fat, but some other foods—like avocados, nuts, seeds, and coconuts etc… are needed.
    Every single cell wall in your body needs fat!
    Women in particular need to have a certain percentage of fat in their diet!
    el-bo sure doesn’t look like a woman to me. His dietary requirements will not necessarily be the same as yours.
    If I were you I would do more research and think about elizabethh’s advice. You are an individual and as such you are obviously unique and have your own needs.

    And incidentally – There ARE very good HOLISTIC Nutritionists out there.
    Aren’t blogs meant for ‘support’????
    For real medical issues there are decent practioners. Let’s not all shove our heads in the sand.
    Honestly are we like religious fanatics who won’t take our hemorrhaging child to the doctor because we think that God is going to stop the bleeding?!?
    It just takes effort to find holistic nutritionists and medical practitioners because DUH they are not mainstream.

    PS: yes seize – OVERconsumption of fat is a huge problem in the average SAD dieter’s life, but Overcomsumption of anything fits that bill no matter What kind of diet one follows.

  • elizabethhelizabethh Raw Newbie

    ““see a medical doctor. a fat free or very low-fat diet is NOT ok. this issue needs to be evaluated by a medical professional.” unless he or she has specialised in nutrition that would be as much use as an ashtray on a motorcycle :o) just as with protein, if you are eating any raw food at all, you are likely to not be in any danger of being ‘fat-free’ what makes you assert that a low-fat diet is “NOT” ok ????”“

    el-bo, despite your denial, there are conditions that cannot simply be solved through dietary means, and there are real problems that can symptomatically express themselves as malabsorption or trouble digesting fats. a medical doctor, even without special interest in nutrition, can identify these conditions and treat them before they become bigger problems. this is not necessarily the type of problem camilla has, but it could be. she is not a doctor, you are not a doctor, and i am not a doctor, but it is simply bad advice to tell someone that if an avocado gives them intense sickness the best thing to do is not eat fatty foods.

    i asserted that a VERY low fat diet is not ok, because fat is an essential nutrient, required by every cell of the body to maintain function. fruits and vegetables that are not “overtly” fat like avocados will not provide enough essential fats for a healthy body.

  • lzhptlzhpt Raw Newbie

    I simply cannot do fruits (tomato)+ fats, but fats+ greens = woohoo!

  • angie207angie207 Raw Newbie

    Intolerance to fats can be a symptom of a choline deficiency – choline is in foods like grain, egg yolks, legumes, lecithin, beef, pork, poultry & leafy green vegetables. Other deficiency symptoms of choline can include growth problems, heart trouble, impaired liver & kidney function, high blood pressure, and more. I suddenly had a problem eating olive oil about a month ago, and I upped my intake of sprouted wheat, legumes & greens, and I’m eating it fine again now.

  • Thanks for your concern, greenghost. I do eat a lot of fats. I meant my post to be a personal message to el-bo, saying that in general his posts remind me to take the simple road rather than get all worked up about what I’m eating- which is what I tend to do. I didn’t mean it in connection to all of the other posts on here (actually I wasn’t referring to fats at all) and I’m sorry if that was confusing or if it seemed like I was dismissing other information.

    I really appreciate all of the support and information that we get from eachother on this forum. Thank you all :)

  • bittbitt Raw Starter

    leaving aside all else that was said, reading david wolfe’s book “Eating for Beauty”, he seems to think coconut oil is the best fat. It is not easily available (meaning not in the conventional grocery store), so you might not have tried it. Just wanted to put that out there.

  • BeTheChangeBeTheChange Raw Newbie

    Coconut oil is very easy on the digestive system, and if anything, helps it out significantly. I’m with Bitt!

  • rosehebrewrosehebrew Raw Newbie

    Maybe it was not the avocado that made you not feel well. Maybe you should try it again but not eat as much or maybe some raw tahini or really raw olive oil. We need to learn to listen to our bodies. Sometimes I require more fat than at other times. I just trust my body to know what it needs at different times.

  • “fruits and vegetables that are not “overtly” fat like avocados will not provide enough essential fats for a healthy body.”

    even if such a statement were to be true, surely this is a quantity issue…..same fats, just in a lesser amount…eat more fruit and veg, get more of the essential fats…..or am i just being a bit ‘simple’

    to get more of the essential fats from fruit and greens , you just gotta eat more fruits and greens

    as ‘seize’ says, ‘overt’ fats just aren’t as readily available in nature….it just doesn’t seem to make sens that we would rely on them so much…..sure, eating some overts, sometimes is perfectly healthy, but these days fats are being over-consumed to make up for insufficient carbohydrate intake

    the raw movement seems to be divided into a few distinct camps…a lot of people deny the importance of calories, but they still get ‘em

    1) the SRD (standard raw diet) .....those who consume a wide range of foods…..some chose to still eat ‘dead’ foods….some eat against the theory of fod combining…..however, most consume fats at a relatively high level…..they are a very high calorie food from a very dense source….do you think that people binge on nuts because the body is screaming for more fat or just because it is hungry and needs more calories…......

    when people ‘diet’ on SRD and they deny themselves calories they often set themselves up for failing….these failures are not usually controlled, but like binges…..when people limit calories, is one biscuit ever enough…..just the same with raw….

    when i first tried raw and didnt eat enough, i would constantly make it to the evening and, still hungry, would end up bingeing on handfuls of cashews (read: bagfuls)...this is something i read about regularly from raw foodists…just hunger

    2) those who prescribe a diet based, predminately on greens , sprouts, supplements and a restriction of fruit…..think hippocrates…..because this diet also tries to steer clear of too much fat, where does brian clements get the rest of his calories from…..the answer is cooked food

    3) those who eat to their caloric level with fruit and eat a huge amount of greens…..’overt’ fats are eaten, but are kept in line with the many, many scientific studies that recommend eating low fat (even raw fat) because higher levels of dietary fat can be proved to inhibit meatabolic function

    even the ‘udo-oil’ dude doesn’t recommend eating more than 15% of calories from fat

    the body will extract the efa’s and other things from the fats, but the bulk of the processing will be trying to convert the fat into a readily usable fuel…...all food becomes sugar in the body…..fat will eventually have to be broken down into the same fual sugar that fruit gives in ready form

    eveything is sugar…sugar feeds our brains and bodies

    ultimately, you must decide and experiment with the above and work out what makes sense to you

    winina…no one is giving advice based on personally developed ideas/theory….or at least i would hope not

    just passing on stuff that i have read…..if any of those ideas resonate, then investigate further

    elizabeth…..i do not deny that some things can’t be solved through dietary means….but what camilla is experiencing has also been experienced by countless others…..fat doesn’t digest as easily as fruit and greens….it is very common for people to notice, after eating predominantly fruit and greens, that fats strip us of more enrgy to convert the fuel…..

    wheras you seem to advocate the standard medical model that something must be wrong if she is unable to eat these ‘overt’ fats….

    i think you are missing the overall sentiment of her statement….rather than feeling ill, in general, camilla states that she feels energised by raw fruits and vegetables…..remembering that these fruits and vegetables also contain the essential fats, why doe she NOT display malabsorbtion issues when eating these foods….it’s all the same fat

    as izhpt pointed, maybe it is the tomato combination that caused the problem…maybe it is the fact that onion is very toxic for the body…..maybe the meal was eaten too close to other foods, causing combinig issues…maybe fruit was eaten too close after the meal

    i’m not saying that your idea is out of the question, elizabeth…..i just think that there are many different avenues to follow before visiting the doctor for malabsorbtion

    camilla…..if you are not eating that many calories, you may find that the amount of fat in the nuts, avo’s etc is a little imbalanced…...

    if you are looking to maintain or gain weight, it may not be the worst thing in the world for you to look at the 80/10/10 path to see if it resonates with you

    good luck :o)

  • double-post :o(

    whether or not i said anything worthwhile, i doubt it was worth saying twice

    lol :o)

  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    It’s all about balance. Everyone must find their own.
    GR is a wonderful blog and so many people are knowledgable and have great insight.
    I apologize if I came off as ranting in my last entry.
    I just get nervous when it sounds like someone might have a health issue that could potentially be serious (such as diseases and/or eating disorders). There are simply some instances when it’s not enough to get friendly advice from one’s favorite blog site and it’s time to seek out real (holistic & competent) medical treatment.

  • I didn’t read all the post so sorry if I repeat anything.

    I am underweight and don’t digest fats either. Sprouted quinoa works really well for me. It’s relatively high in calories but not high in fat or sugar. Personally I can’t do 8-1-1 because all the sugar messes me up and I ended up losing weight even eating a ton of calories. You can’t be completely fat free because your body does need fat to function.You can eat a low fat diet with like 10% fat like 8-1-1 suggests. Have you tried young thai coconuts or coconut oil? I know a few people who can only digest coconut fat. Also when you eat fats make sure you follow food combineing rules…don’t eat fruit and fat in the same meal, eat fats with leafy greens/vegetables/non sweet fruits.

  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    question: why are onions considered toxic? (mentioned somewhere above)
    Are they a ‘nightshade’ plant?
    I’ve heard they may be toxic to dogs & cats, but I didn’t hear the reason….

  • thecavsmanthecavsman Raw Newbie

    Great discussion. I followed your advice el-bo, if you remember, about not starting 80/10/10 yet. But I still started using my calorie calculator and so far this month I have been something like 82/13/5 (guessing) on average. I was already eating like this, but now I have the figures to prove. I still haven’t been following the rules about greens, however, so I am happy that I have chosen to wait. I still have green issues, which, sadly, have a lot to do with preparation time and transportation.

    Anyway, personally, I realize that ouvert fats bring me down. When I feel a nut craving, I realize that it is just a calorie craving, as I only ever crave nuts towards the end of the week when I am just about out of food and there aren’t many fruit/veggie calories left to eat – or when I am worried about not running out of food later in the week and I don’t want to overeat my fruit/veggies so I grab a few nuts. But my body wants 4 bananas over 500 calories of nuts any day of the week. It’s important to think about the difference between calorie cravings and fat cravings. Being full on fats makes me feel like I stuck a plug in my drain while being full on fruit is pleasurable. I know, supposedly, all of our bodies are different, but I am just sharing the way I feel. A lot of times our bodies aren’t so much different but we are just misinterpreting our cravings, too, which is something to think about.

    Does anyone know why I might feel this way: I ate a small avocado today, sprinkled with sea salt and then mashed up, and it was SO good while I was eating it, but now the thought of avocado makes me sick to the stomach and my instincts are telling me I shouldn’t have eaten it. It kept me full for a LONG tme. It is the only thing, besides hazlenuts, that I have ever gotten full off of that has made me feel sick thinking about it after. Intuition tells me maybe it’s too much for me, but I’d like some insightful ideas from all of you.

  • angie207angie207 Raw Newbie

    cavsman – Maybe there was something you needed from the avocado but it was too big of an amount all at once? Or maybe a little of it on a salad would have been a better way to eat it? Or, sometimes, I think our bodies need certain nutrients and we crave whatever food is available that contains those nutrients, but there could have been a better source; it’s just that we didn’t have the better source available so the body takes what it can get. I saw this happen again and again as I gave my body more healthy foods to choose from – like my cravings for chocolate went away when I started drinking soymilk (they both have phytoestrogens), and then when raw cacao came on the market, my body loved it and I no longer needed or wanted the soymilk (raw cacao was a better source for my body than soymilk, but soymilk had been better than heated chocolate). I find the same thing still happening now, too – the more variety of raw plant foods I eat, the less I need or want cooked foods or animal products, because my body is finding as good or better sources for the things it needs without those other things. It’s all a learning process for me, and there are a couple of things in my diet currently that I’m still trying to figure out how to replace, because I feel that they are not the best, but that I need them until I find a suitable replacement. I don’t know if that’s what’s going on with you, but I thought I’d share my experience.

  • good stuff, cavsman..you are describing something that many have found…..avocado’s feel heavy and slimey to people used to the cleaner, easier digested fruits and greens…..just as the salt will become less tolerable

    for the info about onions, and much else, this is a good place to start


    hope this helps :o)

  • Bananna1333Bananna1333 Raw Newbie

    ok…you all know I’m a fan of 811….but when I was watching Survivor last season, the one girl said ‘man I am SOOOO sick of eating coconuts. That’s all we have everyday’.

    Which leads me to think, coconuts are readily available fats….assuming we are living where the fruits are. Do coconuts have seasons, or do they just continuously reproduce?

    I agree though…fats definately slow me down.

    The original poster just said that fats generally make her feel weighed down, which is normal. Then just that one day she felt sick, coulda been the tomatoes, coulda been the onions, coulda been some exhaust she sucked back… Point is, she didn’t say she was feeling sick EVERYTIME she ate them, just that one time….normally they just make her feel sluggish, which is actually pretty normal.

  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    interesting link el-bo
    thanks for sharing

  • you’re welcome…it has a wealth of fascinating info

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