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I didn't say she was feral, I said she was a stray; and yes, that implies she is/was domesticated; I never said she wasn't. And my point was that within that diet, there are things she doesn't like, and wont eat, that other cats on a similar diet prefer, some even exclusively (there are forums were folks talk about this stuff too, ya know). Since cats are obligate carnivores, the details of said diet I will not spell out here; it is inappropriate. As is the direction this thread is headed in. 'nuff said on that.
On topic for this site: if you are not comfortable with intuitive eating, don't eat that way. No one is saying you have to. And, apparently, you still seem to have missed my point about eating oreos.
On topic for this thread: How's it going Rawskeptic?
I'm sorry. I realize now that this IS a site for vegans. I did not mean to offend anyone!
yeah, angie, it is a vegan site. And vegan raw recipes are found & posted here. You are by far *not* the only non-vegan here, and lots of threads have mention of non-vegan items.
I feel mentioning what you consume, without flaunting it, or being gross about it, should be acceptable. It has happened throughout this site in the forums.
As I mentioned before, one of the things I truly appreciate about the raw foods community, is that no one is expected to be 100%; it is optional.
agreed, subject dropped. i knew you were getting way off base when you started talking about pets, but you missed my point and kept pounding oreos for some reason. i attempted to get you back on track to no avail. feel free to start a post about housing stray cats and their culinary preferences or even about oreo fixations, but ill refrain. until then, id like to talk about what humans were meant to eat and optimal diets (whether or not people agree). happy eating!
I agree RawK. Thank you for everything you said. So often here the person trying to do that gets jumped by the little group of nuts half holding on to their sad eating ways. Well, I'm NOT judging until they try to tell me why it's ok when even they know it's not good. I guess the gross habits are so enjoyable their just gonna keep doing them and BTW heres a perfectly healthy senior who has been doing ___ so that helps me feel good about doing it too. Okay?...but poor IWWkevin gets on here and consistently suggests actually eating simple raw foods from the earth and right away he's militant. I'm not as simple an eater as him but yet I have never felt threatened by him either. Imagine that.
And the last time I made one of those time consuming, 3 cups of nuts (before the crust, mind you) desserts in those new books everyone wets themselves over it almost all went in the trash and I wish I had my plain old raspberries back.
thank you gratefultobe, very well put. what i said was in no way disrespectful, but like you said people who still eat that way are very touchy about it and use various methods to rationalize their discordant behaviors. cheers to you!
Yeah, I was goint to suggest to rawskeptic to add raw fish to his diet, or beef carpaccio because I really want him to get the benefits of raw.
Don't give up on raw !!!! Your original hypothesis was based on raw veganism , modify it and base it on raw omnivore, if you want.
3 weeks of raw eating:
Well, I made it. This isn't the most extreme diet I've ever been on (which is saying something) but it still tested my temptation a fair few times.
Since my last update, I have increased calorie consumption mostly in the form of fruit smoothies and fresh-squeezed fruit juice. If nothing else, I now make smoothies that taste 10x better than anything from Jamba Juice.
The increased calorie consumption, as expected, increased my energy expenditure. That sounds like a weird thing to say, but I can see palpable differences in how much energy I expend based on how many calories I eat. For example, now that I'm eating 800-1000 more calories a day, I get noticeably more restless (not necessarily a good thing if you have to site through some of my classes five days a week). My lethargy has also improved, but I still feel like there's something missing. At least I'm sleeping well and waking up feeling refreshed.
My other symptoms haven't changed a bit--which is also expected. I stopped exercising starting on Thursday of this week due to my ever-present muscle soreness. In my few days of exercise abstinence, I do see an improvement, but I shouldn't have to stop exercising for days at a time to cultivate muscle recovery. I also see no reason why my endurance and stamina would have went back up to baseline. Clearly, I just need more protein in my diet, a point that doesn't need to be brooded on.
I did try to increase protein intake with raw sprouted lentils and flax seeds, prepared with the methods outlined in some of the links in this thread, but I ended up with diarrhea and also stomach pain upon consumption. It was my first time sprouting, so I might have just not done a very good job with that. Either way, not an experience I'm excited to have again any time soon.
My overall conclusion of the raw vegan diet is that while I could probably make little changes to it endlessly to better suit my needs, I'd have to make too many compromises to stay on it, while getting few benefits. Some of you have said that I should give my body more time to adapt to the diet--but then you'll say that raw vegan foods are packed with easy-to-digest nutrients, which suggests that I shouldn't need very long to adapt to it. There isn't a diet I can think of that would require an adjustment period, except for perhaps the ketogenic diet, when your body has to make a switch from a carbohydrate-based metabolism to a fat-based metabolism.
I'm not surprised with how the diet turned out. I anticipated the protein issue from far away and I also suspected that I would get tired of raw veggies pretty quickly (mind, I still ate plenty of them in blended and juiced forms). There's no solid evidence backing up the notion that humans should eat a completely raw diet (although there is good evidence that some of what we eat should be raw), but there is evidence that humans evolved on a cooked diet. There is lots of anecdotal evidence for the raw vegan diet--and yet, I've never heard of a centenarian who lived on a raw vegan diet. The longest-living humans on the planet are far from raw vegans. And finally, I've never seen any raw vegans that I would exactly call the epitome of good health (no offense to any of you here, of course. I don't consider myself to be the epitome of health either, so don't think I'm trying to be insulting to your guys' lifestyle).
Overall, I had an enjoyable experience trying this diet out, and I'm glad that I can now make a fair judgment on it. All of the above said, I have decided that I'm not quite done with raw eating. Starting tomorrow, I will add raw meat/dairy/eggs to my diet, and see how this makes me feel. I will continue to log my diet in this thread, unless a moderator objects, in which case I will quietly stop, but you guys here seem fairly open-minded (unlike coughpetaforumscough), so I think we can make this work.
To good health for everybody. =)
Who knows, maybe you'll like raw if you add these things, which you cerainly may. I know it was raw lasagna (Jennifer Cornbleet) that made me realize nothing tasted as good as raw !
By the way, I thought of you at the library today (I have no life outside of school and internet. Loser!).
A good introductory book to contemporary problems in the Philsophy of Science is What is Science? By Alan F. Chalmers. I was reading the chapter on realism for a paper and thought 'hmmm i wonder if they have this in English.' and lo and behold I was reading the translation, it was originally written in English. So you should be able to find it if you wanted...
Some people eat a certain way because it's what makes them healthiest. Just because it may not be the same thing that makes you healthiest doesn't mean that person is "saying something is okay when they know it's not good" or "rationalizing discordant behaviors". Please respect that what works best for you may not be the same thing that works best for every other person.
aviatrix79 - I think what I remember Kandace saying is that they know that not everyone on here is 100% raw, and that not everyone is vegan, but that this site is to discuss the part of your life that is raw & vegan. For that reason, I don't promote eating animal products, but I'd be dishonest if I said I feel best eating a vegan diet all the time, and I think that people need to be aware that not everyone is healthiest eating a vegan diet.
"I'll create one myself"
I for one, would hate to see you go, but I would be interested in knowing about another site, if you do.
I don't understand animosity towards anyone for the way they eat. I agree, it is tiring when folks get flamed.
Best to you.
I'll second what Pixx said Aviatrix...I posted something in another topic (about iron and dark circles under the eyes) and I'll say it again. I for one, am thankful for your insightful posts. Your advice has always been well thought out, and most of all...non judgemental.
I actually look to see where you have posted just to read your advice, whatever the topic may be. I am new to raw (this is my second attempt) and it is helpful for me to receive knowledge from people like yourself and others who are not intimidating in their approach! If you create your own website I would love to know what it is! Although some of the comments have been quite negative...It has not been my experience throughout this entire website and I don't believe it represents the majority of people here. I think sometimes the negative tends to weigh more than the positive...do you know what I mean? And if it does represent the majority of people on here...well then I'm with you! I would need to find another place to chat as well.
Wow a79, I retract my comment asking you to hang in there back on the 'Alcohol & Raw' thread. Basically, the not giving 2 shits comment was pretty sad. And if anyone has gotten overly touchy it would be you and you seem to be getting worse. Before this your eating was no prob. w/ me. Go choke.
I, for one, hope you can keep posting here- I look forward to hearing how things progress for you!
maybe you'd benefit from doing the 811 experiment, if you go over to 30bananasaday.com, they're all very athletic and regularily gush at how fast their recovery time is...
I mean, since you're in to experimenting.
Thanks Aviatrix.....I really appreciate that! You'll be hearing from me soon.. :)
Like you, I am still eating fish from time to time ...and doubt that I will ever stop eating it. ..I am endeavouring on this "raw journey" for health reasons (nothing against animals...they just aren't my driving force for doing this).
Thanks again.... : )
Come on now guys....play nice. X
There's obviously a difference between a meat eater on a vegan site who is respectful and mature and can engage in meaningful conversation not meant to offend any group with their every post, such as vegans - I mean, fine if you eat meat and dairy or eggs, but is that the only thing you have to talk about in every post?; whereas there could be ones who post words just to try to offend a group and/or gain attention.
"ME. Me. EVERYBODY look at me."
If anyone on here is sensitive, it's people who can't stand to be in a minority, lash out at the majority without reason, and then leave in a huff as if the other group started their immature, self-serving internet-based fight.
I've followed this thread from the beginning, and I can say that both the vegans and the 811-ers seem to be the ones who get touchy on these forums.
From reading what just went on, it seems the vegans were the ones hurling insults first. I can understand the vegan viewpoint, and I can understand how enraging it is to see people so nonchalantly consuming animal products when they cause so much suffering and disease and immorality to occur.
But insults and acting disgusted and introverting non-vegans does not win anybody to the vegan side. If anything, it repels them.
I second edamame3, that is exactly what I have noticed as I have been lurking around here reading many of the posts.
Well said, edamame3.
"I think vegans should post on their own as they tend to be touchy feely type of people (ie. annoying lol) and I struggle as it is in here biting my toungue trying to be respectful, but really, when it boils down to it, I don't give two shits about veganism and how vegans feel about animals."
"Anyway, I don't blame you sensitive twats. I blame the site owner for not making it absolutely clear that this site is predominately for sensitive twats."
"I for one, am thankful for your insightful posts. Your advice has always been well thought out, and most of all...non judgemental."
funniest sh^t i've read all week. you two need to start your own website, call it fishy-twats or something like that. and superfood said it so right....with you two, its all about me, me, me.
because one person hurls an insult does not excuse what has taken place after. this thread has turned into a 4th grade classroom.
I didn't see any vegans get offended by the word "fish." I guess I missed that. Sorry!
(they're probably not vegans, anyway, though, but just eat a pure vegetarian diet; veganism is a lifestyle)
Just to clarify, I was actually responding to her previous post (reply #110 on this thread) and when I was finished typing and posted my comment, it came after the comments about not giving a shit
I don't really even remember who is vegan (or says they are when they just mean pure veg diet) or not on this site; it doesn't matter to me or come up except in threads like this.
(p.s. I'm vegan)
Regarding some of the posts on this thread, I am once again, unsurprised at the mediocrity of people's arguments.
And don't really think it's worth my time to "get in the thick of it" when it seems people are "thicker headed" than is worth my time.
Ol' Lively here.
Nice to hear an update!
You might already know this, but I thought it was worth saying:
This next leg of your raw foods journey (as you have laid it out) will require much careful/wise preparation. As someone familiar with Price's work, I urge you to check out some decent preparation methods and precautionary purchasing advice (both found in Price/Fallon's work)-- the quality of the new food you intend to include is EVERYTHING-- as well as some GOOD RECIPES (like I said, Becky Mauldin is great for this). Have I ever mentioned good recipes? ;)
Looking forward to hearing how it goes...
Oh yeah, one more thing, Rawskeptic: are you opposed to grains? You could also try adding a small amount of raw sprouted/ fermented grains to your diet. Like other sprouts they require a bit of preparation but are worth getting the hang of. I don't think you have mentioned eating them (I might just be forgetting though).