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B12 - I got tested and am deficient

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  • modhinamodhina Raw Newbie

    Thank u and a guilt free treat

  • angie207angie207 Raw Newbie

    Interesting about the eyes. I knew someone who had brown eyes, and the healthier & cleaner her body got, the lighter and bluer her eyes got!

  • I don’t know why bee pollen would not be listed as a vegan source of B12, because from what I can see in my research, it has sufficient for the body needs, and it is an excellent delivery system, being rich in the full spectrum of amino acids, as well as b complex, it is supposed to be a decent regulator of hemoglobin levels.

    Because it is a complete food, containing even myriads of enzymes according to several credible studies, (google Dr. Susan Percival, University of Florida) it can of itself, aid in the absorption of the b12 it contains as well as the hundreds of other minerals, amino acids and enzymes it contains. So much of the problem with b12 shortage in the body seems to be related not to lack of intake, but to lack of proper absorption.

    I think Bee Pollen does not get talked about enough in this regard.

    Regards, James Williams

  • I read that sprouts provide B12 & B17 (known for it’s cancer-curing properties). I read this in a book entitled “Dining In The Raw” by: Rita Romano. So maybe we can eat lots of sprouts and be alright?

  • ZanzibarrrZanzibarrr Raw Newbie
    Bee pollen, I stopped taking it a while ago. I just wasn’t feeling right about it. But I still have an old box on my shelf in the kitchen half empty. A very close friend of mine came recently, didn’t say anything but later sent a mail saying this :

    “ah, i was very surprised to see you had pollen … bees work very hard, 1 tablespoon honey represents 2000 hours work for one bee, to commercialize their honey is madness,[...] honey has no price.[...] because they now put honey and hive products in shops, bee exploitation is greater than ever before, and bees are starting to disappear from the planet… Steiner said once, “if there are no bees on the planet, human beings won’t be able to survive”. they are actually very strongly linked to us, and a real symbol of sacrifice.”

  • ZanzibarrrZanzibarrr Raw Newbie

    sprouts? what kind of sprouts, do you have any reference?

  • It’s true Steiner said that—but he I’m pretty sure he was a huge advocate of raw honey in the diets of children :) I think that Steiner was more against the inhumane treatment and lack of reverence for bees than he was against eating bee pollen and honey. But yes, it’s true, the disappearance of bees is a serious issue—if the bees go, we go. However, the only bees that aren’t returning to their hives are the ones that have their hives fumigated (would you return?!) Bees who have their hives on organic farms are doing well—at least according to all of the reports that I have read from this part of the world (Pacific NW). That said—whether you are a raw vegan or “bee-gan” is a personal choice.

    My daughter and I eat raw honey and bee pollen- so do the Boutenkos, Jingee and Storm’s family—it’s probably a must for families with kids, unless you want to rely on supplementation.

    Speaking of supplements, I got my daughter a B12 supplement just yesterday as a matter of fact (just to be on the safe side). For those of you with kids: she is very picky when it comes to supplements, pills, tablets, anything of the sort (as she should be!) but we found a B12 supplement that she likes—it’s Liddell’s oral spray. You spray it under your tongue 4 times in the morning and 4 times in the evening. It tastes great and it gave her an instant energy boost. It was also great because I took her with me to talk to the naturopath at the wellness center about B12 supplementation (she’s 12 years old) and this turned out to be a very good thing. She was able to hear for herself all about the B12 supplements available for vegans and then she chose the one most suitable for her (I was there to guide her if necessary, but didn’t have to). Anyway, I’ve been very much into empowering her to make her own choices regarding her health whenever possible and to trust her own instincts- and it worked very well in this case. Yay!

  • Also, thought I should mention something the naturopath told us yesterday: make sure you get a B12 supplement that is from a reputable company- have a knowledgeable person point out a good source—because yes, as was said earlier, the “cheap” B12 supplements are derived from human fecal matter.

    Supplements from the sewer!!! EW!!!

  • ZanzibarrrZanzibarrr Raw Newbie

    How bad would it be to eat our own feces? Does anyone know? I mean does anyone have scientific facts/knowledge about that?

  • ZanzibarrrZanzibarrr Raw Newbie

    Shigella, campylobacter, salmonella and E.coli are four bacteria commonly present in fecal matter. These bacteria, along with parasites like amebas and giardia, can cause severe diarrhea, abdominal pain and cramping, bloody stools, fever, nausea and vomiting.

    I mean if you are healthy…

  • Paxton SquiggledyPaxton Squiggledy Raw Newbie

    Kevyn, not to put down your friend, but if bees are disappearing from the planet, no one in rural east Texas would ever know it.

  • ZanzibarrrZanzibarrr Raw Newbie

    jellibi- I was thinking how on earth does she know that as well until I read that…

    “We are also a Waldorf family and I am so in love with Waldorf education, I just think it is the greatest. I used to work at the Waldorf school in our neighborhood and now I am studying drawing and painting with the hopes that some day maybe I can do Waldorf art therapy.”

    My friend lives in Emerson college, the Waldorf learning school near east Grinstead. I go from time to time, I definitely love it, a great place. (although the biodynamic food is cooked lol)

    Paxton- LOL, no one on the planet would know it, if it is true that we would all be dead by then :)

  • BluedolfinBluedolfin Raw Newbie

    stRAWberry~ Sorry to hear you are still not getting relief. Drop me a line…

  • Dr Gabriel Cousens recommends ‘Max Stress B Nano-Plex’ as a ‘living’ b vitamin. Its a liquid that you just drop into water it doesnt taste like much which is good. You can find it here: http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/products/m…

  • Strawberry, maybe if you haven’t already researched this, you could check out the link between gluten/casein and rheumatoid arthritis (and all autoimmune diseases for that matter). It may be of help to you if you are still consuming any dairy (even occasionally) or any of the grains with gluten (wheat, barley, rye, oats…) There is also a book called The Autoimmune Epidemic that is an interesting read.

    Kevyn—that’s great! Yep, I used to work at a Waldorf school here in Portland. I most likely will also attend Emerson college to get my art therapy training.. I have to wait a few years though. I am hoping my daughter can study abroad at the Waldorf school next to the Emerson school when she is in High School- and that I can do my art therapy training at the same time. I am sooooooo excited about this!

    P.s. EW, eat your own pooh?????lol!!!!!!!!! :)

  • I read with interest the entire thread of this topic. A few months ago I researched B12 because “the B12 thing” is frequently used against vegans as an argument that way of eating is not natural or safe. I’ve even read conflicting opinions by Dr. Cousens in two different forums! In his book Conscious Eating he discusses possible B12 deficiency as something to look out for. Of course, as a raw foodist who believes that this is the way to eat and this is the way we evolved eating as primates, I was a bit disturbed. Shouldn’t we get all the nutrition we need eating raw and natural? In a more recent online post, however, he seemed convinced that a raw foodist should have no problems.

    Of course, there are some other factors, such as how raw and how natural? I firmly believe that one needs to be at least 75% raw and 75% organic to fully reap the benefits of all the nutrition that food has to offer, and 90% of each is, of course, even better. The amount of nutrition in organic food could be four times that of its non-organic equivalent. That’s four times the vitamins, four times the minerals, four times the enzymes, four times the co-factors. YOu get the picture.

    B12, however, is a different animal. Sort of. It’s a bacteria, and it lives in the soil. And our food in this day of obsessive cleanliness often has much less B12 than it would have in the past when we didn’t clean stuff so much. I actually try not to scrub my carrots and beets too much and always leave the skin on. I read that people who grow their own food, and a lot of organically-grown stuff that uses manure as fertilizer, and that manure could have lots of viable B12 to be absorbed by the growing plants.

    Eating your own poo is not that far off when you realize that we could be eating the composted remains of some animal crap. But, if it’s a vegetarian animal, it won’t be likely to have all the bad stuff in it, just like a vegetarian’s feces isn’t likely to have e coli and all that other bad stuff, and if it’s composted it’s broken down anyway (but should be teeming with B12).

    I’m not convinced that supplements will work. I’m fully convinced that store-shelf vitamins don’t work in isolation (check out what Dr. Campbell writes in the China Study about vitamin supplements). They require enzymes, co-factors, sometimes minerals and other vitamins, and countless other nutrients to work. The best bet is to eat the foods that have the nutrients in them that we need. Well, B12 is a little different, so that might not be as easy as it sounds. I’ve had great luck with fermented and cultured foods, such as Kombucha tea, and by not washing my veggies so much.

    I also read that once we accumulate a certain threshold level of B12 that we’re good for a long time, and the B12 may actually take up residence higher up in our intestinal tracts for optimal absorption. As for the sublinguals and where they come from, I don’t know, because, like a lot of folks here, I want to know where the stuff comes from that I eat and I don’t want it to come from an animal.

    Sorry to be long-winded, but I wanted to share what I knew about this. Cheers!

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    Storm Talifero has been raw vegan for 30 years and has no B12 defeciency. It is a confusing one…maybe he just has a great sex life!! (B12 is in certain bodily fluids ;)

  • Zoe, I’m pretty sure that Storm (and his family) consume raw bee honey and pollen. I read it on his wife’s blog. She said that she believed it wasn’t against being vegan to consume bee products because honey/pollen is not a part of the bee’s body.

  • dodododo Raw Newbie

    i got sick from b12 deficiency, the doc said is was less than half the safe lowest level and the lowest he had ever seen. his daughter is vegan too so he understood where i was coming from. i can only assume that the b12 supplements do absorb as mine is back and healthy where it should be. i too leave the skin on my veg from my garden (only on organic veg) so dont understand why i got so low.

    MMM said poo!

  • Yeah, I saw this video a while ago of Gabriel Cousens talking about B12 deficiency: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoHIwrvAiLw

    I was vegan for about six months, but that changed my mind. I don’t like the idea of being on a diet that requires you to take a pill to keep from dying. Plus, if they missed B12, what else did they miss?

    That’s a personal choice though. It could be that the whole B12 thing is a myth. I really don’t know.

    I saw the documentary about Storm and his family, Breakthrough, and they seem to be doing fine, but I wasn’t following them around for the last thirty years, so I’d really just have to take their word for it, and it’s a pretty big gamble.

    Sorry if these comments offend anyone. Just being 100% honest.

  • dodododo Raw Newbie

    nutritional yeast and fortified cerals and soya milk have plenty of b12, i think if i had been less complacent and cocky and thought more about it i prob would have faired better. i have to say tho i find the normal conventional diet that most of the population survive on and feed their kiddies is far more deficient in goodness than a vegan diet. in addition the harm that they are doing with eggs and dairy and meat is staggering, at least with veganism the b12 is the only real area of concern so give me the vegan lifestyle anyday. id rather take one tiny pill a day than risk high cholesterol, various cancers, hardened arteries, heart attacks, strokes etc.

  • True enough. The standard American diet is horrible, and factory farming is sickening.

    I’m still a raw foodist, I just eat raw animal products occasionally (humanely raised.) But again, that’s a personal choice.

    Maybe I’ll graduate to the full blown raw vegan diet one day. Who knows.

  • dodododo Raw Newbie

    i think caution is always the best addition to any diet, not a whole heap of paranoia, just a little thought. even elephants seek out salt if its missing from their diet so even the most natural diet can be missing something and in nature they seem to instinctively source it when they are low on it, maybe we will evolve to do the same. Instincts rock :)

  • beanybeeganbeanybeegan Raw Newbie

    O.K. dodo I am a bee-gan! Thanks for the title jellibi. For years I have taken sublinguals, but after reading the posts I see may not need them. I eat honey and am not ultra clean with the veggies I grow. Now winter time may be a different story. All very interesting.

  • dodododo Raw Newbie

    hehe thats exactly what i thought when i read that, i thought beany the bee-gan ;)

    glad you still like me even tho i am pedantic :)

  • I don’t know what I’d do without my daily dose of dulse. It’s stablized my b12 levels and this is coming from someone who needs to gain a massive amount of weight and would look at an instantly assume I may be defecient in most micronutrients. My doctor has been in shock with my recent bloodwork throughout this year which I get on a regular basis. He was trying to get me on b12 injections and I told him to test me first and see if I was as bad as he thought based on looking at me… right… he tests me and I wasn’t even off!!!Eating raw has stablized my vitamin and mineral levels, dramatically. Come to speak of… I have chronic hypokalemia (low potassium) due to bulimia nervosa/etc. and last week I had bloodwork done. My potassium level is at the highest it’s ever been due to the nutritional progress I’ve been making with increasing my food intake, all raw of course… and of course modifying bulimic behaviors – Anyhow, it was higher than it’s been even after being IV’d in the ER for emergency situations MANY MANY MANY times within the last five years… now that is saying a lot. Raw is healing and has helped save my life.

    Sorry this went a little off topic but I wanted to emphasize on the healing benefits of using raw foods to help balance our micronutrients.

  • I question this human poo thing…where would they get it?!? Supplements can be sketch, but they aren’t from sewage

  • Hey Johnny – kudos to you! (the raw diet falls in line for me what you say too; I real life changing thing). Can I ask a question? I am new; I bought dulse – how do you crumble it? Made the food processor almost have a stroke.

  • SuperfoodSuperfood Raw Newbie

    You might have absorpability issues, raw or not, so take extra sublinguals.

  • SuperfoodSuperfood Raw Newbie

    It’s nice that you keep an open mind, Kevlar, and continue to evolve! That’s refreshing. :D

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