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why are so many on this site afraid of fruit?



  • kellyannekellyanne Raw Newbie

    hey JA, i'd like to do more reading about the evolution of the human diet. seems you know A LOT about anthropology and archeology. do you have any book recommendations? textbooks even? thanks!

  • J AJ A

    Hi kellyanne,

    Well, I've done quite a bit of reading for some years now but I don't have any academic qualifications. I just love archaeology and human history, it is so interesting I could go on reading forever ;-)

    I do most of my reading on the internet so I'm afraid I don't have any books to suggest. Wikipedia is good basic reading, I usually look up whichever topic I'm interested in and then keep clicking and reading. Most of the time there are pretty good links, too, to check up any uncertainties and to look for criticism of the viewpoints offered.

    I would suggest taking a basic article about human evolution, say, this one:


    What you'll notice after a bit of reading is the time lines differ quite a bit between different sources, sometimes they say humans (the homo species) is around 2 million years old, other sites will tell you it's more like 3-4 million years. The more you read, the better you will learn to discern between serious and less so articles. There are databases with pretty much all the human fossiles ever found so it's possible to check out how old the oldest hominid fossiles are, to avoid speculation. (The oldest one currently is 6-7 million years old.)

    Wikipedia's greatest shortcoming, in my opinion, is the ease with which less well-grounded "facts" can be fed in to the articles. For example, the article I've linked to says there is a vigorous debate between proponents of RAO (humans evolved in Africa) and MTO (humans evolved simultaneously in different places around the globe) when in fact the scientific community has pretty much settled for RAO. For sure, there are serious scientists promoting MTO but then there are serious scientists saying there's no global warming... You can pretty much always find scientific evidence for almost anything, the trick is to find out what most scientists believe in and why, look at the facts. This usually comes with time as you keep reading, you'll come across more and more differing viewpoints and by checking out their references (links) you'll find out which make the most sense and seem most serious.

    That said, there are a few sites I would seriously recommend you to check out. To begin with, there's the Swedish scientist and doctor Staffan Lindeberg who's conducted studies among modern paleolithic tribes, he's into the paleolithic type of diet but he is very informative when it comes to human evolution and food. It's also in my opinion worth noting that the tribe he studied has a serious track record of excellent health, they pretty much lack all forms of illness and have been doing so (the entire tribe) for as long as they have been studied, probably as logn as they have been in existence. What Staffan doesn't say is they eat 65-70 % raw (the rest consisting of one warm meal per day, cooked roots, sea food, some bird meat). He doesn't omit that on purpose, I think it simply hasn't occurred to him that the percentage of raw food has any impact.


    I haven't explored this site in depth but it looks promising, less text intensive:


    New scientist has some articles, too:


    Happy reading! I'll always be happy to discuss human evolution and related topics. There is quite a bit of good reading outside archaeology, too - there's Jean Liedloff when it comes to mother-child ties (http://www.continuum-concept.org/), James Kimmel and his excellent "Whatever Happened to Mother?" on more or less the same topic (http://www.naturalchild.org/whatever_happened/), there's Thomas Ljungberg, another Swedish doctor and scientist who wrote an excellent book (in Swedish only, I guess) on the issue of human psychologic and emotional evolution (http://www.abctidning.se/y9811.html) etc. etc.

    Then there's of course the whole Natural Hygiene thing which is pretty much all about living according to evolution, I've only very recently begun exploring their writings and ideas so I can't say much about it yet.

  • ras-saadonras-saadon Raw Newbie

    Something I don't understand about 811 though, it 80% calories from fruit, 10% from fat and 10% from greens right? what about olives&avocados? most of their calories comes from fat but they are also fruits, how do they fit in this 811 scheme?

  • joannabananajoannabanana Raw Newbie

    ras, it's 80% carbs, 10% fat, and 10% protein. All foods have a percentage of these so your food intake should be close to these amounts.

    With the B-12, I read in 811 that vegans get their B-12 from organic produce because it leeches into the roots of the fruits and veggies from the soil. That's why Graham stresses buying organic produce. It is so expensive though.

  • kellyannekellyanne Raw Newbie

    thank you for all the recommendations! i'm going to take a look at those websites.

    natural hygiene is amazing. it just makes perfect sense. i have some recommended readings for natural hygiene if you're interested:

    the basic health library volumes I, II, and III (compilations of different hygienists writings) these books are old so you can probably only find them used

    natural hygiene: mans pristine way of life by herbert shelton

    anything by t.c. fry

    most everything in the basic health libraries are on rawfoodexplained.com. it's a great site. it has a ton of articles and writings from different natural hygienists.

  • ras-saadonras-saadon Raw Newbie

    Did a checkup on what I normally eat every day and it seems I am doing 811 hehe, funny how that naturally happened.. also seems I only eat around 1600-1800 calories a day which I find weird as I'm not tired even a tiny bit, actually sometimes I feel so awake that I don't go to bed until 00:00-2:00, anyone else noticed that?

  • superfood2superfood2 Raw Newbie

    I have periods where I need little sleep and periods where I want more. Just depends on the day.

  • KittyKitty Raw Newbie

    I'm so glad I found this thread..its fascinating! Its exactly what I needed because I have been raw for going on 6 months. I leaned toward high fruit/low fat for a few months and felt great but was not losing the 5-10 lbs I wanted to lose. I felt like maybe all the sugar, although natural, was making me hit a plateau. I started counting up the sugar grams I ate daily, just to give myself an idea, it was around 130. I always exercise regularly. So then after reading other peoples raw food blogs I discovered a few who eat practically NO fruit, but mainly greens , nuts and seeds. I decided to give this a try..its week 2 for me and I significantly cut down all the fruit I was eating and upped my fat and I honestly feel like crap. For the past 2 wks I have felt extremely tired and sluggish, no energy or motivation to work out. I am definetly going back to high fruit starting...like TODAY!

    I see first hand the benefits of a high fruit diet. Its not about the number on the scale, its about feeling your best and feeling healthy. As long as I keep telling myself that, I wont worry about that last 5 lbs. I guess as much as I see and know the benefits, I still mildly worry about the sugar content. Can natural sugar cause diabetes or any other health problems? After researching other people's stuff I guess I just need some reassurance?

  • joannabananajoannabanana Raw Newbie

    kitty, i think high fruit is definitely good for you. it won't cause diabetes, but high fat will. type 2 stems from obesity so if you aren't obese, then don't worry. i've noticed i have a lot more energy in general when i eat high fruit and my skin so clear. i mean, i never wear makeup any more and i used to not leave the house without it!

  • the59soundthe59sound Raw Newbie

    I'm thriving on a fruit dominated diet. Of course though, greens are important, I eat 2 heads of romaine a day. :)

  • kellyannekellyanne Raw Newbie

    hi kitty! i'm glad you can see the benefits first hand! high intensity exercises work great to burn fat and i'm sure that it would help you lose those few lbs. you don't want. you have nothing to fear about fruit sugar as long as you're keeping it somewhat low-fat. fat is what stops the sugar from being absorbed efficiently. people these days are eating diets really high in fats and refined sugars and that combination is leading to the high occurrence of diabetes not the sugar from fruit. there are actually diabetics that have been able to reduce the intake of insulin or stop using it altogether after switching to a fruit based diet. you said you felt great on high fruit so i would listen to your body and keep doing what feels good.

    wish you all the best :)

  • RawEverythingRawEverything Raw Newbie

    Kellyanne, I think your partly right. refined sugar and the wrong kind of fats get you sick/fat (or the wrong kind and grains). The right kind and fruit doesn't. I think fruit is a complete product it's in balance (of course not the genetic modified super sweet fruit) and therefore it can't be wrong.

    The problem I have with fruit is that it's not all year around available only in summer and fall. What do I eat in the winter or spring (I don't like imported fruit from the other side of the world, oranges from Spain is far enough)?

    Other thing bothering me every one on earth likes fat, the taste of fat or fat food why?. In other cultures fat is more valuable than lean meat. Why is it that something everyone like is so bad? It can't be (of course processed food/fat has noting to do with the pure fat). If you look at food normal people like it's always yellow (color of good fat?). Strange things.

  • rawmamanibblesrawmamanibbles Raw Newbie

    How do you incorp. 8/1/1 into your way of eating if your not 100% raw and dont plan on it??

    i enjoy whole grains - cooked and raw goat dairy ....

  • "of course not the genetic modified super sweet fruit"

    First off its not genetically modified its hybridized. This hybridized fruit myth that is perpetuated by raw leaders is pretty damn ignorant, they have absolutely no prove to back up there claims. If what they say is true that fruit is some how 100 times sweeter today then it was in our ancestors times that means they would have to eat up to 200 bananas a day just to receive sufficient calories. Does this make sense?? Not to me. The fear of hybridized food is just a bs line perpetuated by people like david wolfe that want you to buy more of there "superfoods", everything is a hybrid including you and I

    Also wanted to add, most fruit is not hybridized for sweetness its hybridized for appearance, the most hybridized fruit always comes from the super market and its also always the bitterest and least tasty

  • "How do you incorp. 8/1/1 into your way of eating if your not 100% raw and dont plan on it??

    i enjoy whole grains - cooked and raw goat dairy"

    Drop the raw goat dairy or severely limit it and use grains as you would fruit. 80/10/10 is a nutrient profile standing for 80% carbs, 10% protien, 10% fat. This is easily achievable on a cooked food diet

  • kellyannekellyanne Raw Newbie

    i agree with you watermelon. i have had wild native fruits before and they taste just as sweet if not sweeter!

    rawmamanibbles- do you eat less acidic grains? eating acidic grains all the time can harm your health. they have a lower calcium content and can mess up the calcium phosphorous ratios. it may be a good idea to try cooked potatoes, squashes, veggies and less acidic grains like millet in place of rice or wheat. i would also drop the dairy, but that's me. dairy is intended for infants so i see no need for it as an adult, especially when it's breast milk from another species.

  • Hi, I've just been kind of wondering. I'm 17 (so doctors say I need a certain amount of fat due to puberty and all that) and I've been on the raw foodie for 7 months now. So I've been eating a lot of fruits but I make sure to have some hemp seed or some almond butter during a day. My question is: eating a lot of fruit w/ green juices and such is that detox? And is it normal for brown eyes to start turning green?

    Am I doing something wrong?

    Anyways, please respond and thanks!!

  • keewikeewi Raw Newbie

    Hey jules at this point in your life the extra fat isn't a necessity. Adolescents only need extra fat till about the age of 10 or so.

    My question is: eating a lot of fruit w/ green juices and such is that detox?

    Is what a detox??

    And is it normal for brown eyes to start turning green?

    As long as your eyes aren't bloodshot or the whites aren't turning yellow i would say your fine

    Am I doing something wrong?

    Sounds like your doing ok but i would recommend cutting out the fat during the day and only eating at night if you really think its necessary, this way it won't interfere with your fruit consumption and cause problems. Also make sure your getting sufficient quantity of fruit to meet your calorie requirements ( i would say around 3000 for an active growing young adult as yourself)

  • so what would be a typical day to meet 3000 calories?

    I eat 2 fruit cups

    4-6 bananas

    2-3 apples

    1 cup of grapes

    and 2 cups of vegetable juice

    Oh and some sprouted cereal with banana milk and hemp

    Would I need to eat more of different fruits? Oh and I mean for the detox that I've been researching and many people have said that inundating your body with fresh fruits and vegetables is a form of internal detoxification for your body. So thats what I mean :D

  • Oh and 2 more questions:

    If I do have a vegetable juice how long should I wait to start eating fruit? I do want to optimize in my digestion, and I do hear that food combining can lead to fermentation. So what is the best way to approach that so I don't have my food fermenting in my stomach? :(

  • kellyannekellyanne Raw Newbie

    hi rawrealgreen!

    i recommend downloading cron-o-meter to track your calories for a little while till you get the hang of how much you need to eat. http://spaz.ca/cronometer/ it's a great program and it's free.

    i think the assortment of fruit you have there sounds great. i would input it on cron-o-meter to see how many calories it comes to and add more if necessary.

    it's a good idea to drink juices on an empty stomach so i would start the day off with the juice and then move onto fruits and veggies. i get indigestion when i don't combine properly. mono-mealing is the best for digestion, but mixing fruits when it's from the same category (either acid, sub acid, sweet) seems to be fine for me also. the best way to know for sure is to experiment and pay attention to how you feel.

    hope this helps :)

  • keewikeewi Raw Newbie

    Hey rawrealgreen,

    I would typically wait about an 1-2 hours after drinking a green juice or eating a salad to eat something else. Don't mix fat with sugar and wait 3 hours after you eat nuts to not experience fermentation. Also avoid mixing sweet fruits with acid fruits.

    About your calorie question, I may have over estimated how much you need because for some reason i assumed you were a guy (going by the avatar picture I'm guessing you a girl?). In this case you would probably be able to get by with alitte less calories, probably around 2500 but i wouldn't go much under that.

    Just for reference a typical 2500 calorie meal would be,

    20-25 big bananas


    1 1/2 gallons orange juice


    8 pounds of grapes

    Check out nutritiondata.com to get some ideas of other foods or downoad chronmeter as kelly suggest. Right now your getting 1500-1700 calories at the most which is pretty damn low

  • OMG!! sooo... I can't eat 20-25 llbs of bananas, or 8 pounds of grapes...

    What's a typical meal for you then??

  • the59soundthe59sound Raw Newbie

    You can, but with that mentality your mind is already closed to actually doing it.

  • keewikeewi Raw Newbie

    Anyone can eat that much fruit, you probably can't atm because your stomach is most likely shrunken from eating cooked food all your life but If you gradually up the amount of food you eat it will be no problem in no time. You either have to start focusing on eating more fruit or eat fat if you don't your never gonna get enough calories, I don't recommend the latter of the two.

    A typical meal for me is something like this,

    1 pound of fresh dates,

    10 Bananas,

    4 pounds grapes,

    1/2 gallon orange juice,

  • superfood2superfood2 Raw Newbie

    I think those of us with lower fat intake don't have a problem.

  • KittyKitty Raw Newbie

    Cuddles, like you said, follow your intuition and listen to how your body feels. Some people do very well eating a lot of fruit. Others just don't.

    I was eating a high fruit diet very strictly and also was very bloated...and gassy. I also had sharp stomach pains. So for about 2 wks I tried eating no fruit. I was sleepy and had no energy AT ALL. Now I eat about 3-5 servings a day (a serving to me is about a 1/2 cup) Mainly these servings are in my green smoothies. I'm focusing more on greens now after just reading Victoria Beutenko's book Green for Life. You're going to find a lot of different opinions on this website, but ultimately you just have to listen to your own body and find what works. Just because someones body does very well on high fruit doesn't mean everyones will.

  • Cuddles, I am just speculating here, but I think that the longer you consume RAW (as well as the more of it) your tolerance for fruit will probably increase. Just like any change we introduce our bodies to it takes time for adjustment. For example, we all know that increasing fiber is a good thing for most people, but doing it too quickly results in bloating and flatulance. Slow and steady wins the race.

  • cuddlescuddles Raw Newbie



    I have been being doing raw for 2.5 years and the problem is not getting better.

    I actually consumed too much fruit (mono and in smoothies) today, and have had sharp pains and loose bowels all afternoon. I even had a little accident whilst out walking - embarrassing to say the least.

    If I followed the advice of those guys at 30bananasaday.com

  • keewikeewi Raw Newbie

    Cuddles do you consume fat within 3 hours before or after you eat the fruit? What kinda fruits are you eating?

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