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Definitely Not a Palin fan

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  • TomsMomTomsMom Raw Newbie

    Wanting to have the right to choose does not mean that supporter will run out and abort fetus after fetus. It does not mean that person thinks a fetus is a non-feeling “thing”. .

    Being a feminist does not neccessarily mean that you agree with abortion.

    Also, I’m curious as to why those who are anti-choice but who support abortions for rape victims, would find that the baby of a rape victim is filth that should be discarded? So, those of you who would enslave women again to their bodies feel that in SOME cases, the fetus is a piece of garbage? And this sets as well with you? I guess that considering many who claim to be avid supporters of the rights of the unborn are also the same people who bang the drum for war and support slaughtering of foreign children are a bit muddled in what really constitutes “life”.

  • JoyceHJoyceH Raw Newbie

    In regards to Sarah Palin the big issues seem to be anti-abortion and gay marriage for the religious conservatives.

    1)Gay marriage- I honestly don’t see how this could hurt the religious conservatives or threaten their own marriage rituals. There seems to be absolutely no harm in people choosing who they wish to legally marry. Even the US constitution doesn’t forbide gay marriage. So here’s my message to the ultra right: Leave same sex couples alone! Let them marry and enjoy the same basic human rights as the rest of us. It’s none of your darn business whether they choose to legally marry.

    2)Abortion – I can really see both sides to this very passionate issue. This is quite serious since the debate is over life. From what I see, the religious conservatives and current administration focus so much on trying to make abortion illegal that they fail to examine the underlying causes which encourage women to have an abortion – i.e: poverty, unemployment, NO health insurance, etc…If abortion is made illegal, many women will still go up to Canada or have it done in a scary, unsafe, unsanitary facility. So to me this doesn’t seem to be a good solution to the problem. If a women insists on aborting her baby, it should at least be done in a safe manner. So instead of focussing on over turning Roe vs Wade, why not focuss on making the lives of pregnant women easier: provide accessible education & training programs for underprivilidged women, health care during the pregnancy and afterwards, etc…I don’t want to see girls/women aborting their babies, especially since there are so many couples who can’t have babies and end up on these adoption waiting lists that take years. There’s obviously a broken system, actually there are just so many broken systems in this country. There is so much room for improvement and so much the country could do to help and encourage women not to have abortions.

    One more thing, I have lived in Europe and experienced socialized medicine (actually more like a hybrid form in Ireland) and you know what??? It’s actually quite good!! So before you guys/gals start going on and on about how terrible universal health care might be, let me tell you that you don’t have to wait or experience terrible service like all the myths out there…I always say, “don’t knock it till you try it”..but hey, we are raw foodists and luckily don’t need to see a doctor very often :-)

  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    JoyceH – yeah I have also worked abroad (as well as done volunteer work) in Germany and I was amazed at how good the health care was. The paid work I did was in a Kurhaus Hotel – 1/2 of the ‘guests’ were actually sent there by their doctor’s for therapeutic treatment of their health conditions—they used the therapeutic pool, received massages, did exercise classes etc…. Many of the guests had cancer or a physically debilitating disease and their health improved by coming to the Kurhaus (oops, I forgot, no (ü) umlaut in Kurhaus).

    As an employee (apprentice) I also received medical treatment. During my stay – I had to see an MD when I got sinusitis and also saw a GYN for a routine check-up. And I saw a Dentist.
    All of them were excellent.
    I don’t know if Universal Health Care would by default be as good here in the US, but I couldn’t believe the professionalism and service I saw & received during my experiences in Germany.

  • JoyceHJoyceH Raw Newbie

    Thanks for sharing that greenghost! I’ve heard Germany is very good.

  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    thanks Joyce… here’s a link
    http://www.porten.de/
    “Einfach weil’s gut tut” = Simply because it does you good

  • JoyceHJoyceH Raw Newbie

    Oh and speaking of living and traveling abroad, don’t you all think it’s rather surprising that Palin just recently got her passport last year and hadn’t been off the north american continent until then?? Nothing wrong with not having an interest in foreign travel but to then say one is qualified in foreign policy and claim to be ready to fill the presidency if McCain dies or gets cancer again…

    well heck then, I nominate my two cats Fergus and Murphy to run for Prez and VP :-)

  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    Wow – I didn’t know that McCain had cancer. Jeeze I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
    Seriously don’t mean to go on & on about Germany, but the DJ on the radio station I listen to in the am just got back from Germany and he said that the Germans he met honestly thought that it was a joke/prank that Palin is on the VP ticket. They asked him if she won a ‘contest’.
    And yes they do think she is looney.

  • JoyceHJoyceH Raw Newbie

    Didn’t he have cancer several times? I don’t know the details but heard his medical records covered over 100 pages where Obama’s medical record was one page.

    In Ireland, the bookmakers were taking bets that Palin would be dropped by McCain which I thought was hilarious. Someone from Ireland asked me in an email if her name was pulled from a hat!

  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    it’s funny & very scary at the same time
    (I’m referring to the Irish ‘pulling Palin’s name from a hat’ and the German ‘contest’ comments… I feel I need to explain that as a disclaimer just in case anyone is feeling antsy. Don’t want to upset anyone).

  • Yes, Palin’s lack of experience bothers me too. Especially in that she had never met a head of state prior to her interview a couple weeks ago and had gotten her first passport 2 years ago. She stated that in history many VP’s had not met a head of state prior to taking office. Not true. In the last 32 years ALL VP’s have met a head of state and have resume’s that qualify them for the job on one level or another at least. ; ) This stuff about the American people wanting someone that doesn’t have the “big, long resume” is a bunch of bull.

    For the record, John McCain has had 4 melanomas – the first was diagnosed and surgically removed in 2000, I think. His medical records are so long mostly because of the physical and mental trauma he endured as a POW and the medical care, surgeries and things he received after that time in his life. He is also 26 years older than Barack Obama, hence of course a much longer record of medical care. This is a very important issue to discuss – his age (which personally I don’t think 72 is old – I plan on making it to 120, but for some people it is since he is 4 years away from the avg life span of an American male), as well as his questionable physical and mental health.

  • Universal health care would be a good idea in an ideal society, but this is not an ideal society. I take care of my body, and I eat healthy. We are living in the unhealthiest nation on the planet, and, while we raw foodists don’t need doctor visits very often (as Joyce pointed out) there are serious fatasses out there, who require triple bypasses and diabetes treatment, just because they’re unwilling to change their diets, and we’re supposed to foot the bill for them???

    What’s more, I don’t trust this government. We are trillions of dollars in debt (and on the verge of a depression). What makes you think we’d be able to afford universal health care on top of that?

    Our income taxes already go to pay for nothing but war. If you think it pays for the streets or our schools, you’re wrong. Gasoline taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, etc, etc, etc, pay for that. Our income taxes mostly go towards war, and to line the pockets of the bankers who own the privately owned Federal Reserve.

    There may be countries out there where the income taxes are actually spent on services for the people, but this is not one of them.

    Learn the truth about our monetary system, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ

    So, the bottom line is, if this government weren’t corrupt, and more than 5% of Americans actually cared about their health, I’d be all for universal health care, but as it stands, it’s just not happening.

  • Kevlar, you said:

    Our income taxes already go to pay for nothing but war. If you think it pays for the streets or our schools, you’re wrong.

    That reminds me of a bumper sticker I had on my car when I was in college, it read:

    “It will be a beautiful day when our schools have enough money and the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber”

    ....I know, it’s silly.

  • It’s not silly at all. It’s true.

    My mother is a substitute teacher, and has to buy supplies out of her own pocket for her classes.

  • greenghostgreenghost Raw Newbie

    true… it is sad how few people in America follow through on taking care of themselves….
    it is common-place in other countries for even the elderly to ride bikes to the market etc… ~ and I’m not talking about third world countries. Most other nations are simply more pro-active in their health.
    When I worked in Physical Therapy I used to get quite a few patients who refused to do their exercises – I’d practically have to beg them – even though it was for their benefit, not mine.
    All they cared about was getting Ultrasound, E-stim, and Massages, but when it came time for them to put in effort many (thankfully not all) just made excuses.

  • yes. that is so sad. It’s silly to try to sum up on a bumper sticker the disgusting way this country treats children. There is so much more to it – I don’t know how people sleep at night. That is why educating ourselves to all sides and being able to formulate and develop intelligent arguments is very important.

    My husband had a friend years ago who was a rocket scientist and he said he couldn’t sleep at night. That people would stand around and “watch/see things” and they would be saying, “there’s no way that is humanly or physically possible”. And he would say, “you’re seeing it with your own eyes”. That’s why I believe there is sooo much more that we do not know. How can we say that we KNOW anything for sure? That is another reason why we have to really question this idea of Palin being VP.

    It’s sort of like those glasses in your picture, Kevlar. Very creepy.

  • It IS very much like the glasses in Kevlar’s picture. ;)

    There is much more than what we are spoonfed through the conglomeration of mainstream media.

    If you really want to understand the bigger picture, the info is out there… until they take our Internet freedom away. Check out the latest books,videos, etc of people like David Icke, Alex Jones, Jordan Maxwell, Jim Marrs and many others like them trying to let us know what’s happening.

    Not for the faint of heart though, nor for anyone still blindly stuck in the limited little box we have all been raised in. ;)

    For starters:

    www.consciousmedianetwork.com -*free to view the interviews with many fascinating people

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6DCsdeWPVo&feat… -David Icke on Alex Jones’s radio show recently

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-571613… – “Secrets of the Matrix”

  • It’s funny how you happened to post that interview with David Icke. It had more of an impact on me than anything I’ve heard in a long time.

    David Icke:

    those people who have woken up have really now got to turn their minds to what are we gonna do about it.. and ask ourselves every day, what have we contributed today to bringing an end to this move.. this enormously quickening move now to this Orwellian state, and what have we done to inform more people of what’s going on… because there’s nothing.. nothing more important than this information, because, if we don’t sort this out, everything goes, everything ends, and we’ve really got to focus on what do we do, rather than just learning more about it.

    And that’s what I will now focus my energy on.

  • I too don’t think Gone Raw is the place for this. I have no idea who I’m voting for yet, I swing back and forth and so far I have not heart Obama talk about the environment much at all and though he talks about health care he doesn’t talk about what he’s going to do. So I’m not all keen on him either, I don’t think he’s really who he represents.

    Now I like McCain, I think he’s honest and a good person but Palin I gotta agree is not that great, I think it’s great she got where she has but I don’t’ think she gives a darn about animals and the planet and that sort of person scares me. Anyone who cares so little about these things including human beings you have to wonder about.

    So who the heck am I voting for? Who knows, I keep medicating on it and trying to get the real facts about each one. What you say about Palin though on the animals is right on.

    But I don’t think Gone Raw is the place to get facts, there are web sites totally devoted to Facts vs Myths of our politics.

    Just my two cents

  • JoyceHJoyceH Raw Newbie

    I believe it would be up to Kandace and Ray if discussing politics in the ‘Other’ section was inappropriate.

    Hey if you don’t want to talk politics on Goneraw, well then don’t. No one is forcing you to read this thread ;-)

    I’m not religious or a Christian so I probably won’t be reading the Christian thread on here. But hey, it’s nice that people have that option to discuss their religion if they so choose :-)

    cheerio

  • It’s really interesting for me to get an idea of where other raw foodists stand on the issues. And I don’t believe the sharing of ideas on this website should be restricted to just what we eat. That would be very limited.

  • McCain just announced that he wants to suspend his campaign – if Obama will as well – until the economic crisis is lessened. He wants to start by cancelling Friday’s debate. I hate being such a cynic, but I feel he wants this suspension because Obama has once again taken him in the polls and the Palin-bounce appears to be over. I think the campaign is more important than ever now that we are in a crisis. Let’s hear how each of these men would be acting right now if they were Commander in Chief. Let’s hear their reaction to Paulson’s 700 billion no-questions-asked and no-judicial-review buy-out plan – now, not after Congress votes on it. You want to be a leader, tell us how you’d lead, damnit. The debate on Friday is on domestic issues – a perfect time to tell the country how you are interpreting this crisis and strategizing in case you inherit it. The economic crisis is not going to pass overhead like a thundercloud. We’re in it, and we’re going to be in it for a while. If you want to be constructive, focus your campaigns on this crisis – thereby addressing it while still campaigning – and stop running dirty sleazy character-attacking commercials. Don’t tell me that Obama is a scary black man trying to teach sex to your 5 year old – tell me why your economic plan is more likely to help us than his is. I feel like this is such a ploy. Maybe I’m wrong.

  • Kevlar – have you been following Ron Paul’s take on the crisis? He is against the bail out entirely. Says prices need to be lowered – which will hurt some businesses but will more naturally correct the current inflated market. He wants less regulation of the free market, as regulation helped cause this mess. Of course others are saying that certain deregulations – like the doing away of the Glass-Stegall Act – led to this mess. I think the answer is probably a soup of all of these actions. IN other news, man, these late season tomatoes are good…

  • Wow.. thanks for the news, Dagny. A lot of people suspected that Bush might cancel the election, but now it looks like the candidates might do it for him.

    And, yeah, I heard Ron Paul’s take on the whole mess. He was warning people that it was coming a long time ago. Thanks to this bailout, the CEOs are going to get richer, and all of us are going to get poorer. The hyperinflation will make every dollar worth less. They’re pretty much stealing money right out of our bank accounts.

  • This whole putting the debates on hold seems like some kind of ploy to me. We only have roughly two months before the election. People need to hear as much info from these candidates as they can to become better informed.

  • “Also, I’m curious as to why those who are anti-choice but who support abortions for rape victims, would find that the baby of a rape victim is filth that should be discarded? So, those of you who would enslave women again to their bodies feel that in SOME cases, the fetus is a piece of garbage? And this sets as well with you? “

    Re: your quote Tomsmom, No, none of it sits well with me.

  • Now the McCain camp is insisting on cancelling the VP debate and rescheduling it at some later time. Uh…yeah. Obama camp is saying no on all – saying that the debates are more important than ever. McCain – a man who a couple of days ago said that our economy is strong – is so direly needed to solve the economic crisis all of a sudden? And Palin is needed to? I forget – did she get a PhD in finance somewhere along the way? Oh, no, that’s right, she almost failed out of college and went to at least 4 schools in order to graduate. Gosh, how is the economy ever going to recover without her razor-sharp insight? The hypocrisy of these people just kills me. How stupid do they think voters are?? And more importantly, how blind are voters actually?

  • LauroliLauroli Raw Newbie

    DagnyTaggart~ Well said! I am sure there are PLENTY of other qualified financial experts that can brainstorm on our crappy economy without the help of McCain and Obama. Cancelling the debate is LUDICROUS. It just seems like McCain isn’t prepared.

  • i was wrong about the debate topics – this friday’s presidential debate is scheduled to be on foreign policy – the third debate is on domestic issues, including the economy. So, why not just switch the order of the debates? it’s not as if these men are supposed to have to learn their positions – they should know their positions. Jon Soltz is a veteran of iraq and afghanistan and a leader in the veteran community. here is his post on vetvoice.com – he makes a really excellent point. I love the fact that troops are overwhelming supporting obama. deployed troops have contributed to the obama campaign in a 6-1 ratio! doesn’t it say something when mccain -the war hero – can’t even get the support of the armed forces? that they would rather have the man with no military experience responsible for their lives? how many of those troops do you think would trust palin with their lives? Soltz Post:

    So, because there’s a financial crisis, Senator McCain cannot take 90 minutes to address how he will face challenges around the world, including how and when he will send American troops to fight, and possibly die.

    Wow. Troops would sure love that luxury.

    Unfortunately, though, insurgents in Iraq don’t stop shooting at us, or setting IEDs, because our Commander in Chief needs a breather to figure out Wall Street.

    Al Qaeda in the Afghanistan/Pakistan border region don’t send our troops notes that read, “Hey, I hear you guys are tied up with Wall Street. Your President needs to concentrate on other things, so we’ll give you a break. So, to make things easier on you, here’s our coordinates.”

    Nor do our troops get a few days to figure out how to hold onto an area we’ve secured, if there’s an unexpected attack. Sometimes we need to deal with multiple flare-ups at once in any warzone. We’d sure love a time-out, but sadly, the world isn’t such a nice place that it gives us that kind of pity.

    When you’re Commander in Chief, I don’t think there’d be a worse signal to send to our troops in harm’s way than to say, “Hey, hold on guys. I know you’re getting killed over there, but I have to get a time-out here to deal with Wall Street.”

    If troops need to multi-task without a break, is it so wrong that we demand that a potential President-in-waiting prove that he can manage a financial crisis, and still address crises around the world for 90 minutes? And, if a potential President-to-be can’t manage that, is it wrong to think that maybe he ought not just suspend a debate and the campaign, but move aside and get out of the race?

    Just something to think about.

    Crossposted at VetVoice.com

    John McCain Wall Street Crisis Afghanistan So, because there’s a financial crisis, Senator McCain cannot take 90 minutes to address how he will face challenges around the world, including how and when he will send American troops to fight, and… So, because there’s a financial crisis, Senator McCain cannot take 90 minutes to address how he will face challenges around the world, including how and when he will send American troops to fight, and…

  • omshantiomshanti Raw Newbie

    I like the sound of health care for everyone..i really do, it seems to work in europe quite well but what if we tried it here in america and it was run like the rest of our govt services? yikes!

    Govt run health care here in Ca if it went anything like my conversation with dept of planning and land use today:

    me: “yes, i was calling to check on the status of my tests to determine if i have cancer or not…”

    county:” do you have the test results identification number?”

    me:” uh no i dont have my test results back yet …im calling on the status of them” county:” you understand there is no way to look you up in the system if we dont have that number…”

    me” oooookaaaay…...what about my name and doctors number and the reciept number i got when i took the tests” county:” who exactly preformed these tests on you”

    me:” my doctors name is…” county” no, not your doctor, the person who preformed the test”

    me:” i didnt get his name…” county:” can you discribe him?”

    me:” can i talk to you supervisor?” county:” sighs very loudly:” who is your doctor” me:” dr so and such”

    county;” we’ll call you back..”

    county five minutes later;” your tests have been located, they where not logged into our system so we logged them in today for processing, we cannot however process them until we recieve the original order to have the tests done…is that in your possesion? after we recieve that it should take three to four weeks. thank you”

    me after listening to message”aaaaaaaaaaaaaafrrrrrrrrghghghghghghghghgh!” then i had a beer….nah i cant say as i trust this govt to prescribe me health care. i may have to invoke my french citizenship and move…...especially if the mcpalin ticket wins!!!!!

  • Dagny- thank you for posting your eloquent, power-packed thoughts and also all the great new info.

    Regarding McCain’s insistence on stalling the debates and election: Perhaps this debacle he and the Republican Party are attempting to pull over on us (as if we are so incredibly stupid! ...Ahhh yes, but then some still will be, no doubt…) will concrete those who may have been on the fence about which of the two main candidates to stand behind.

    Kevlar- how do you feel Ron Paul’s chances are? I still consider voting for him, even though I do not agree with his stance on everything, but I cannot accept the idea of, basically, giving my vote to McSame by taking it away from a slightly higher possiblility of true change with Obama, either though, especially since I live in a red county and state.

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